Post 1vFRBmmsyaJ

Hjalmar Holm May 12, 2015 (21:44)

I posted tha last Aesop fable over a week ago, so now it's due time for another.

I restamo ar yondoryar

Atar, nála lúmesse fírieva, merne carie tahtie i yondoryar antuvar alie nóreryar ve esse sa ánie. Yálessset caimanna ar quentes, ”Yondonyar, harma ná nurtaina mi min miruile-tarwanyaron.” I yondor, epe fírierya, cóler i sampar ar i restapeleccor ar tírimave ama-sapaner il-asta nóreryaro. Ú-hirner harma, ananta i miruiler hantaneltar yaustanen ú-ilaurea ar am-alya.

Carda súleo lúmesse hanta camienen ú-apacenna.

Miruile, ”vine, wine-plant”
EQ Pelek ”axe”
EQ sampa ”spade”
*tahta- "make sure"

The Farmer and His Sons

A FATHER, being on the point of death, wished to be sure that his
sons would give the same attention to his farm as he himself had
given it. He called them to his bedside and said, "My sons,
there is a great treasure hid in one of my vineyards." The sons,
after his death, took their spades and mattocks and carefully dug
over every portion of their land. They found no treasure, but
the vines repaid their labor by an extraordinary and
superabundant crop.

Industry sometimes pays unexpected dividends

Tamas Ferencz May 13, 2015 (11:34)

Nice attempt. I have a few comments/questions.
mernes: the -s is not needed as there is a subject (atar) in the sentence

carie ronda: TBH I think this is an anglicism and grating to my ear; if I'd want to express 'to make sure, affirm, establish etc.' I'd probably go to the root TAK (see its derivatives, esp. N tangada-); perhaps *tahta-?

úvie: I understand this word meaning more like 'deliberation, pondering, consideration', not 'care, nurture'; perhaps you could use AL/alya 'grow, make prosper', e.g. *alie?

yálesser: the 3rd pl. objective pron. ending is -t (cf. laituvalmet)

caimasse is a locative, did you mean to use an allative rather?

ná harma: I'd reverse the word order, the copula to follow the noun

min mirolva-restanyali: I think (for lack of a word for 'orchard') tarwa 'garden' is closer to the meaning, or even some neologism based on YOD/YOR, or even panda 'enclosure'; to me resta looks more specific to fields to grow corn/grain etc. I may be mistaken of course; also, you seem to be lacking some sort of locative ('in one of'), also, the 'one of' seems to call for some partitive/genitive construction, e.g. mí mine restanyaron/tarwanyaron

Hjalmar Holm May 13, 2015 (18:29)

First, Quenya is still very new to me, and I try to avoid to make new words at this early stage, to get a good understanding of the language. Some things that are lexicalized in English and my mothertongue is not lexicalized in S and Q for a reason, since thought and language come hand in hand. I'll glady use your words though, since I think you've got a feeling of the language by now. 

Consideration and care is not the same thing, I agree on that, but one who cares about his farm probably also gives it quite much consideration.

Good thought about garden. I thought about the genitive, but for some reason I used the partitive plural instead, quite incorrectly, since it's one garden of all the farmers gardens, not one of some of all...

Hjalmar Holm May 13, 2015 (18:42)

I also changed the translation of "his farm" from restarya to nórerya.

I did not understand why you spell "in one" mi min *mí mine.

Tamas Ferencz May 14, 2015 (00:19)

+Hjalmar Holm IIRC means "in the " (i.e. it contains the article) ; mine is just a variant

Tamas Ferencz May 14, 2015 (00:20)

On second thought perhaps that article is unnecessary, so simply mi

Александр Запрягаев May 15, 2015 (13:46)

+Hjalmar Holm I have doubts about miru for 'wine'. Indeed, it is in QL, but I guess it heavily contradicts the derivation of miruvorë in PE17. I'd rather take io from mid-Qenya [PE16:141], if you desire not to use limpë.

Hjalmar Holm May 15, 2015 (23:51)

Thanks, +Александр Запрягаев I could not find io though.

Александр Запрягаев May 16, 2015 (08:30)

+Hjalmar Holm My uttermost frustration is the absence of Qenya thematic lexicons from PE16 in any online sources. I checked now — not even in the Quettaparmas. I'm surprised.

Tamas Ferencz May 16, 2015 (08:38)

+Александр Запрягаев I am sure +Paul Strack​ will add them to Eldamo eventually

Paul Strack May 16, 2015 (16:45)

+Tamas Ferencz +Александр Запрягаев I do intend to add PE16 to Eldamo eventually, but at my current pace, it is probably a couple years away.

Tamas Ferencz May 16, 2015 (19:23)

+Paul Strack no rush! Eldamo is already a mighty resource - thanks for your work on it

Александр Запрягаев May 17, 2015 (10:46)

+Paul Strack Definitely no pressure, sir! In fact, I'm still admiring the amount of work done.
+Tamas Ferencz I'm just surprised that the period between the Lexicons and the Etymologies is so rarely mentioned or studied, though is has lots of interesting insights, thematic dictionaries included.