Navin i … ‘I judge that …’
1) ‘your doing it’
1a) lyenya carilas
1b) carielyas (not valid because this example is particular and gerund is general?)
1c)
1d)
2) ‘your having done it’
2a) lyenya cáriélas
2b) (equivalent does not exist as gerund is always general and aorist?)
2c)
2d)
… mára (ná). ‘… is good.’
Which of these are valid and why? Are there any alternate forms or other remarks? As always, I welcome any and all feedback.
Edit: I momentarily forgot that it’s permissible to combine possessive and personal pronouns with at least the particular infinitive.
Tamas Ferencz Mar 18, 2017 (23:10)
Tamas Ferencz Mar 18, 2017 (23:13)
Tamas Ferencz Mar 18, 2017 (23:17)
Robert Reynolds Mar 18, 2017 (23:25)
Robert Reynolds Mar 18, 2017 (23:27)
Tamas Ferencz Mar 18, 2017 (23:35)
Robert Reynolds Mar 18, 2017 (23:51)
Tamas Ferencz Mar 19, 2017 (10:22)
Paul Strack Mar 19, 2017 (22:06)
I don't think the general infinitive can be inflected in any way, and can only be used in verbal phrase such as:
merin mene "I want to go"
In case where it appears the infinitive is inflected, the verb is most likely actually in the aorist tense. After all, the infinitive is essentially an uninflected aorist.
It would not be appropriate to use a general infinitive as a subject of a verb, like in English "to go is wise". You would need to use a gerund or a particular infinitive.
I think you would need to use a particular infinitive if you wanted to add object suffixes to the infinitive, such as:
merin caritas "I want to do it"
I also think the particular infinitive can also serve as a pseudo-noun in a cupola or similar constructs, and can in this case accept a possessive suffix to indicate the subject. In these cases the tense marker would be on the main verb.
caritanyas mára né "my doing it was good"
caritalyas mára lauva "your doing it will not be good"
For more complex constructs I think Quenya prefers to use a subordinate clause, as +Tamas Ferencz suggested:
merin ya carilyes "I want you to do it, (lit.) I want that you do it"
To cover the example of "your having done it", remember that the infinitive it essentially timeless and adapts the tense of the main verb. You could say "your having done it was good" simply by:
caritalyas mára né "(lit.) your doing it was good"
Tamas Ferencz Mar 19, 2017 (22:14)
Tamas Ferencz Mar 19, 2017 (22:21)
Paul Strack Mar 19, 2017 (22:39)
care mára quí tyare naxa "doing good may cause evil"
Thus I was wrong there. It seems the general infinitive can be used as subject.
As for PE15/155 where Tolkien says that participles can take possessive suffixes, that doesn't mean they suddenly become nouns. I think they still remain adjectival.
In theory Tolkien may have meant that the active participle (normally and adjective) may also function like the present participle in English as part of verb phrases: "I was going to the store". Since there are no examples, I'd hesitate to use such a construction.
Robert Reynolds Mar 19, 2017 (22:40)
Björn Fromén Mar 20, 2017 (00:35)