Post 587fC2pdtCX

Tamas Ferencz Aug 22, 2014 (08:57)

'tidy, orderly, composed' in NeoQuenya? or NeoSindarin

possibly canna? parina/párina could be an option, but Tolkien seemed to vacillate a lot about the exact meaning of par-.

Any thoughts?

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Aug 22, 2014 (14:17)

herend-(ë)a (-ima), téma(re)ssëa (témavoitë), poityana (< Qe, PE12:75)..?

P.S. One seems to be unable to find a word for "mess / confusion / disorder" in the current vocabulary... but at least MR:254 should graciously allow the shorter *alafasta as an adjective. [Given PE17:148 &al, *avafastë might also be a valid form (ava- > au- perhaps being preferrable to some, due to the otherwise back-to-back labiodental fricatives).]

Tamas Ferencz Aug 22, 2014 (14:44)

heren is glossed 'order' but I am not sure it comes from the notion of something organized, orderly? anyway too close to herenya, though that's not necessarily a problem

Tamas Ferencz Aug 22, 2014 (14:50)

but you may be onto something with the root TEÑ - question is how this can be turned into an adjective (but your témassea might work as well)

or it's possible that we should just extend the meaning of téra 'straight, right', which seemed to come from the same root at one point

Tamas Ferencz Aug 22, 2014 (14:52)

'composed' *(y)opanna?

Tamas Ferencz Aug 22, 2014 (15:30)

+ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ  I do like *alafasta though... I think I'll add that to VQP with you credited as the creator

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Aug 22, 2014 (18:56)

Concerning heren : Whether téma is a better starting point or not, it is still informative to note that "order" and "(fraternal) order, caste" can also be the same word in e.g. Hungarian (rend). And in Italian where ordine may also mean "trade (craft)" we of course have the Ordini sacri.

The overlap between Finnish järjestys = Ic. skipun (G Ordnung, Lat. ordo) and järjestö = skipulag (G Organisation, Lat. ordo, consociatio) may also be quoted in the same breath.

Tamas Ferencz Aug 22, 2014 (19:13)

yes, most European languages have "monastric order" coming from the same word as the word for "order" because monks live in an ordered fashion there - but this does not yet convince me that "heren" goes back to a word with the same meaning...

Lőrinczi Gábor Aug 23, 2014 (18:24)

*parthannen in S

Ицхак Пензев Aug 31, 2014 (10:27)

Ah, now I know the origin of Helge's neologism *partaina!