Another Aesop fable
I atar ar selderyat
Nér samne seldet, i min vertaina lótepandamon, ar i hye ambaltanon. Apa lú lendes seldenna i vertaina lótepandamo, ar maquentes manen mahantes immo ar manen náti illi lelenyer ases. Quentes, ”náti illi alye asenye, ar samin erya merie, i nai ulyie lungu lantuva, an i olvar alyar nénwe”. Apa lú ua anda, lendes i seldenna i evéries ambaltanon, ar váve maquentesses manen mahtanes immo; hanquentes ”Penin ú-nát, ar same erya merie, i Anar lá hautie calie calimave, an i cemnambali nai parcar.” I atar quentes, ”Cé selerlye mere rossen, ar meril súre parcan, as man atto napanuvan merienyar?
lótepandamo, ”flower-enclosed space-person”
ambaltano, ”earthen-shaped stone-person”
The Father and His Two Daughters
A MAN had two daughters, the one married to a gardener, and the
other to a tile-maker. After a time he went to the daughter who
had married the gardener, and inquired how she was and how all
things went with her. She said, "All things are prospering with
me, and I have only one wish, that there may be a heavy fall of
rain, in order that the plants may be well watered." Not long
after, he went to the daughter who had married the tilemaker, and
likewise inquired of her how she fared; she replied, "I want for
nothing, and have only one wish, that the dry weather may
continue, and the sun shine hot and bright, so that the bricks
might be dried." He said to her, "If your sister wishes for rain,
and you for dry weather, with which of the two am I to join my
wishes?'
Tamas Ferencz May 01, 2015 (14:46)
- the pa.t. of lelya- is lende
- I like the concept of mahta- to be used to express how one 'carries oneself, feels', but you might consider using it in a reflexive way *mahta immo 'carry oneself' or *maxtaxe
- 'one wish only' could be erya merie 'a single wish'
- rosse is glossed 'fine rain, dew' so it's sort of an oxymoron to say lunga rosse; I suggest using ulya- 'pour' instead
- i olvar alya: please explain
- what's *vele?
to be continued
Tamas Ferencz May 01, 2015 (14:52)
lotarwa is attested for 'garden' in EQ and it fits later phonology
Hjalmar Holm May 02, 2015 (14:10)
alya "prosperous, blessed", an i olvar alya nénwa "for/so the plants [be] prosperous having-water". I see now that -wa is probably more correct than -arwa as the suffix for "having water".
Tamas Ferencz May 02, 2015 (14:22)
Tamas Ferencz May 02, 2015 (14:27)
In Ataremma we see Tolkien using na to express "(let it) be" - check it out
Paul Strack May 02, 2015 (23:49)
As near as I can tell, any of the Quenya suffixes used to form abstract nouns, -ie, -le and -ve, can also be used for adverbs. I don't think Quenya has proper adverbs, but can use such abstractions to serve that function. Thus márie "goodness" can be used as the adverb "well", both from adjective mára "good".
I am not sure when you would use one suffix over the other. Presumably it is based on what sounds best.
Tamas Ferencz May 03, 2015 (00:28)
Björn Fromén May 03, 2015 (00:55)
Paul Strack May 03, 2015 (01:38)
Hjalmar Holm May 03, 2015 (15:54)
Paul Strack May 03, 2015 (16:08)
Björn Fromén May 03, 2015 (23:25)
Tamas Ferencz May 04, 2015 (00:16)
Actually, PE17 has vávea "similar, alike" so the adverb could be simply *váve?
Paul Strack May 04, 2015 (01:12)
At the beginning of the same note, Tolkien said that a "peculiarity of Quenya syntax is the use of same (or very similar) forms as both adverbs and abstract nouns derived from adjectives". My interpretation is that he meant that such abstractions, constructed using any of the various suffixes -ie, -le and -ve could also be used as adverbs. He gives -ie and -le as explicit examples in the note, with márie "well" and oiale "eternally" glossed as if they were adverbs.
When he said the "adverb[ial] use may be regarded as a use of the noun in instrumental or comitative sense (? descending from a time before noun inflection ?)", I interpret this as a description of the origin of Quenya's adstract noun = adverb syntax, since it occurred in "a time before noun inflection".
Hjalmar Holm May 04, 2015 (14:19)
Tamas Ferencz May 04, 2015 (14:35)
Björn Fromén May 05, 2015 (00:29)
Another indication that talle etc. were rejected: in the long lists of derivatives from ta 'that' and si 'this' quoted in VT 49:11-12 and 18, there is no trace of talle and sille. Instead we have tanen and sinen with similar meanings ('in that way'; 'by this means, so').
Paul Strack May 05, 2015 (06:55)