Post 8ox5JXqgQBs

Fiona Jallings Feb 10, 2014 (18:35)

I wrote a list of new words from VT 50. Can you spot any errors or missing words in it?
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ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Feb 10, 2014 (22:55)

I've been wondering whether ed could alternatively stand for "any more, (from here on) out" in the fragment...

Superficially, seen against den (of VT44!), en [estar] may at first bring to mind sth. like Old Irish són / ón (< suide) — but maybe it could actually be related to the reflexive possessive pronoun în = Sw, Norw. "sin/sitt", given Salo's etymology *3êna/êna > în in Gateway p. 107. Or perhaps it's an alternative/unstressed position form of aen (cp. S ath-ae, -e = OIr.; in Welsh e.g. as in Morris-Jones § 191).

In the second appearance, en... en looks very much like it was just the possessive particle repeated (separately before the definite article) — this then being readily understood as "both of X... and of Y"?

Chem is indeed problematic due to the obscurity of il, but if it truly represents an idea of enmity, then an appropriate noun might perhaps come from CE *kengw- < *KE[Ñ]G < KEG (Salo: *'snag, barb') á la Etym:376?

Thoughts of others concerning thor :

Nice post and notes, Fiona.

Tamas Ferencz Feb 12, 2014 (10:09)


Roman Rausch Feb 13, 2014 (03:04)

- Den from the Pater Noster and ed from the Túrin Wrapper are both dated to be from the 50s, so it's hard to say what replaced what. The footnote in VT50:14 also lists eth, is and a bunch of plural forms from the same time (which you could also mention in the list, btw), so the conceptions seem to have been very much in flux, as they say.

- I think that eithro might mean 'otherwise' and be derived from KES- (whence Q. ekes, exa 'other', VT49:40), via *ek's-rā + adverbial -o. Compare Welsh eithr 'but, except, besides' from Latin extrā. Incidentally, this lets us reconstruct S. *eithr, *eithor 'other' as an adjective.

- Since *edhelath is not actually attested, it's not that much of an alternative. Such would be eleniath (PE17:139), for example. I don't think there is anything wrong with not obviously regular collectives.

- For a verb 'to remember' *ren- is a good option (REN- 'remember, have in mind', rîn 'remembrance' PM:372).

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Feb 13, 2014 (13:23)

And since dangar- can mean "to undo" (PE17:166), following the Welsh idiom anghofio would give *dadhren- as a candidate for "to forget".

Fiona Jallings Feb 14, 2014 (00:37)

This is super helpful!