Post 94oFwAPPsLi

Paul Strack Jun 03, 2018 (05:21)

I had a request a couple weeks ago to allow Russian translations in Eldamo. Since then, I've been experimenting with options for including non-English translations in general.

Here is what I've come up with so far. I created google spreadsheet titled "eldamo-translations-base"

This spreadsheet can be cloned for translations into other languages, for example, eldamo-translations-russian, eldamo-translations-french, etc. The non-English gloss would simply go into the "Translation" column.

Some caveats:

1) There are over 20000 rows in the spreadsheet. Translating all of it would be a huge amount of work. It would probably be better and easier to focus only on a subset of the data. There is a Lang filter, which I've set to n (Noldorin), s (Sindarin), q (Late Quenya) and mq (Middle Quenya). That reduces the number of rows to a more manageable 8000.

2) Eldamo isn't done and will continue to evolve, perhaps indefinitely. New entries will be added and some old entries will change. Any set of translations will slowly go out of date.

3) In light of the above, my plan is to have a fallback mechanism, so that is a given translation is unavailable, either because it is not done or has gone out of data, Eldamo would fallback to English.

If translating Eldamo content is something you are interested in doing, let me know. For know, I am going to follow up with the one volunteer I have so far: Fayanzār from the Discord server.

Alternately, the spreadsheet might be useful for other purposes. If folks like the idea of alternate, spreadsheet-based representations of Eldamo data, I'd be willing to explore other options.

Remy Corbin Jun 03, 2018 (08:59)

Wonderful idea!

Remy Corbin Jun 04, 2018 (08:54)

I can help in translating it into Polish if you want to. I've already begun anyway.

Paul Strack Jun 04, 2018 (15:30)

+Remy Corbin Sure, if you’d like. I’ve created a sheet for polish translations: - eldamo-translations-polish

Let me know when you have some translations done so I can create a prototype page.

Remy Corbin Jun 04, 2018 (15:54)

+Paul Strack I'm doing it since yesterday in my spare time, but I think I can add couple of words every day. I'll do it in a minute.

Paul Strack Jun 04, 2018 (17:28)

I don’t need a full list, just some samples. I can then start working on a beta Polish search page.

FYI - this is currently the end goal: creating an Eldamo search page for non-English languages. A full translation of Eldamo would be a much bigger project.

David Giraudeau Jun 28, 2018 (21:15)

Hi Paul. I'm ready to perform the French translation.

Paul Strack Jun 28, 2018 (21:18)

+David Giraudeau That would be lovely. I will create a French translation spreadsheet tonight when I get home. All I ask is permission to publish your work with the same Creative Commons license as the rest of Eldamo.

Paul Strack Jun 29, 2018 (02:11)

+David Giraudeau Here is a French spreadsheet for translations. Let me know if you have questions. - eldamo-translations-french

Also, please confirm that I can publish your work with the same Creative Commons license as the rest of Eldamo (posting a confirmation here is sufficient).

David Giraudeau Jun 29, 2018 (06:44)

Yes +Paul Strack, of course ! You will be able to publish it the way you want.

I would like to suggest another point : could it be possible to integrate the external datation in each bibliographical reference ? You know I have it in my own database and I guess it could be really helpful. It would be a huge work but I would be ready to do it before any translation. :-)

Paul Strack Jun 29, 2018 (07:15)

+David Giraudeau Putting more accurate dates on references is something I’d like to do at some point. The current “early, middle, late” breakdown is pretty crude.

Unfortunately, I have a long list of things I want to work on first. Right now I am going through the entire data set trying to put together coherent Neo-Eldarin wordlists. After that I am hoping on doing some more detailed phonetic analysis of both Quenya and Sindarin. And I also want to do semantic classification of all the entries. There also more detailed grammatical analysis.

So maybe some day, but right now it’s low priority

David Giraudeau Jun 29, 2018 (11:18)

Ok. But is it difficult to associate void values (e.g. "start_date" + "end_date") to each reference ?
If not, I could do the datation job for all the entries I already glosed for Quenya (PE11, PE12, PE17, PE21) or SIndarin (PE17). ;-)

Paul Strack Jun 29, 2018 (15:32)

+David Giraudeau David, the translation spreadsheets are not a list of references, they are a list of entries (which may aggregate references from several locations and times). Right now, the only place where translations will appear is in the search pages.

Paul Strack Jun 29, 2018 (15:35)

+David Giraudeau if adding date ranges to Eldamo references is some you are interested in doing, we can discuss how to go about doing it. The translation spreadsheets are not formatted in a way suitable for that kind of work.

Dating references would require a different set of data to work with.

David Giraudeau Jun 29, 2018 (19:46)

+Paul Strack yes, I want it, for sure ! Don't hesitate to give me any information or protocole and I'll do the job. \o/

Paul Strack Jun 29, 2018 (20:33)

+David Giraudeau OK, I will try to connect with you on Google Hangouts this weekend to work out the details. My rough idea is not to put the dates on each of the 90,000 references (which would take forever) but to treat dating as a metadata as on references ranges. Something like this:

The priority flag will allow for higher priority "sub-ranges" for the very common case of a single work being mostly from one period, but the source includes footnotes to a different period.

I also need to think about how to include the date information in the Eldamo web content itself.

David Giraudeau Jun 29, 2018 (21:37)

+Paul Strack As you want. But I guess my nearly autistic superpower (pleonasm) to do repetitive things for hours, days or weeks could cope with 90k entries.