Post A6nqzPsSGGg

James Coish Jun 22, 2015 (03:56)

If I might ask a question...any ideas for the plural of aiwe? Is it aiwi, aiwer, or aiwir?

Paul Strack Jun 22, 2015 (04:01)

Most likely aiwi. Quenya nouns ending in e usually change their final vowel to i in the plural.

Exceptions are nouns ending in -ie and -le.

Matt Dinse Jun 22, 2015 (06:33)

I would agree with aiwi as well. As for the exceptions, we do have some (rare) forms besides the ones in -ie and -le, like lámatyáver, Ingweron, nómesseron, Wenderon.

I'm not aware of any later Q nouns ending in -ie that don't get pluralized with -r, but -le has  some with -r, including tyeller, fintaler. The only -le forming plural with -i that I can think of at the moment is tilli.

Paul Strack Jun 22, 2015 (16:28)

You are right, there are exceptions beyond those I listed. It is hard to put the remaining exceptions into a general rule, however. Tolkien gave the plural of Ingwe as both Ingwi and Ingwer, for example.

I generally use Helge Fauskanger's pluralization rules for Quenya:

1) Nouns ending in a consonant form the plural with -i.

2) Nouns ending in a vowel form the plural with -r.

3) Exception to #2, nouns ending in -e change that e to i.

4) Exception to #3, nouns ending in -ie and -le form the plural by adding -r.

These rules are consistent with all but a handful of attested examples.

Andre Polykanine Jun 23, 2015 (01:10)

Sorry, I've never heard about nouns in -le forming plurals with -r, and Helge doesn't seem to mention it nowhere. Could someone elaborate this, please?

Paul Strack Jun 23, 2015 (04:14)

Helge did mention this irregular form, in Lesson 2 (search for tyeller), but you are right: he didn't claim it was a normal rule. His writing is just the first place I encountered this irregularity. I apologize for misrepresenting him.

However, there are two examples of an -ler plural, one in LotR (tyeller) and another in associated notes fintaler (PE17/119). I didn't know of any counter-examples until +Matt Dinse pointed out tilli. Given that additional example, I might revise my rule so that the -ler plural only applies when the noun has the suffix -le as the abstract noun ending.

It's been a while since I looked at er-plurals in Quenya. There are more of them than I originally thought. Excluding the well-attested tier and Valier, I count eight in my notes:

esseron (VT42/17, also i-plural essi MR/216 and UT/266)
Ingwer and Ingweron (PM/340, also i-plural Ingwi PM/332)
Wenderon (VT44/18)
fintaler (PE17/119)
lámatyáver (MR/216)
lotser (PE17/160)
Nasser (PE17/175)
tyeller (LotR/1118)

I must admit I don’t see a general pattern.

EDIT: I found a 9th er-plural (and a 3rd ler-plural) in Tolkien's writing from the 1930s: maller (LR/47, SD/310). I knew there was another supporting example for ler-plurals.