Post AdLaQjbRkkS

Matt Dinse Dec 15, 2014 (19:46)

Might anyone be willing to provide some criticism/corrections? Elsewhere there was a translation request for a line from the Silmarillion into Quenya; upon starting to try my hand, I noticed just how rusty I've gotten (eep!). I haven't quite figured out some words, and my attempt is probably rife with Anglicisms and abnormal word order.  It doesn't look right at all.

"For that woe is past, and I would take what joy is here left, untroubled by memory. And maybe there is woe enough yet to come, though still hope may seem bright."

An tana naice néya ná, ar tuvuva (yana?) alasse ya sís mare en, úcótina rénenen. Ta cé eä fárëa naice tulien en, (though) estel cé séya calima en.

"For that pain is in the past, and I shall take joy which still abides here, untroubled by memory. And maybe there is enough pain still for-coming, (though) hope may still appear bright."

I'm not too satisfied with some aspects of that paraphrase (and how to represent it), but haven't figured out how to improve it.

Tamas Ferencz Dec 15, 2014 (22:26)

Perhaps:

An tana nwalme ná vanwa, ar mapuvan/cestuvan i alasse ya en lemya sís, útapta rénenen. Ta cenasta fárea nwalme tuluva en, [though] estel cé en lelya calima.

Tamas Ferencz Dec 15, 2014 (23:47)

If you want to retain mar-, perhaps termar- is a better fitting variant

Tamas Ferencz Dec 16, 2014 (00:21)

Thinking of that pesky "though, although", perhaps cenasta, cenasit " be it that" is the closest of the attested words to that notion?

Tamas Ferencz Dec 16, 2014 (15:22)

Instead of the neologism *réne perhaps you can simply use the attested enyalie.

Björn Fromén Dec 16, 2014 (17:21)

A Q word for 'seem, appear' is sorely needed indeed, but I doubt that lelya- is the answer. In the gloss "appear, of beautiful things, hence attract, enchant (with dative)" [PE 17:151] "appear" should probably be emended to "appeal".  IIRC Chris Gilson confirmed this suspicion in a posting on Aglardh ( I'm afraid I can't provide a link).

Tamas Ferencz Dec 17, 2014 (09:48)

+Björn Fromén I remember that, and it may be true. But then it occurred to me that the gloss as it stands now curiously resembles the Hungarian verb tetszik which means "appear" but using it with dative it means " appeals to " e.g. tetszik nekem " I like it, it appeals to me". It's just too much of a coincidence to ignore

Matt Dinse Dec 19, 2014 (02:30)

Those suggestions look good! Would you say that it would turn out as enyaliénen? I recall the forms of márie and lintiénen in PE17, but I'm unsure whether the same applies to gerunds. Looks like I might want to take notes while rereading the material.

I should probably get around to making a personal 'updated' wordlist with annotations like your insights here - as Björn mentions, there were also some good points back on Aglardh, though my memory isn't as good as the two of yours.

Even though trying to access the 'old' Aglardh comes up as an error, is it still around somewhere as data (whether hosted or not)?

Tamas Ferencz Dec 19, 2014 (08:45)

+Matt Dinse the old Aglardh is down I am afraid, got so infested by spam bots I had to close it; perhaps I can restore it from an earlier database backup - I will take a look

Björn Fromén Dec 19, 2014 (16:56)

+Matt Dinse   _enyaliénen_ would definitely be my choice. It's a case of rhythmic lengthening (PE 21:67): "to rhythmic causes may largely be assigned the usual long vowel before such affixes as -li, -nen where the penult of the stem was short". No doubt this applies to forms like Oroméva, tyaliéva, vanimálion; perhaps also to plurals like atanatári, coranári