G+ LoME Archive
Post Cw8D1Ynpqyr
ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ, WordWheel, #kumba-, Jan Sorondil Slaný, Björn Fromén, Tamas Ferencz

Tamas Ferencz Oct 27, 2015 (09:03)

Do you think haura from KHAWAD can be used as a verb to mean 'store, put away, stash'? Or should we employ KHEP/KHAP for this purpose, perhaps with a prefix like au/ava or et(e)>
Eldamo : Primitive Elvish : KHAWAD
√KHAWAD root. “store, hoard”. Reference ✧ PE19/091.3202 ✧ “store, hoard”. Elements. KHAW¹, “rest, lie at ease; cover up, hide away, lay in store”, extension, ✧ PE19/091.3105. Derivatives. > Q. haura² “hoard, store” ✧ PE19/091.3206. > T. hauda “hoard, store” ✧ PE19/091.3209.

Tamas Ferencz Oct 27, 2015 (09:05)

Or would that be *hauya- based on the pair mauya/maure from MBAW?

Jan Sorondil Slaný Oct 27, 2015 (11:22)

I guess we can do without KHEP, because the gloss „store, hoard“ of KHAWAD is closer in meaning to what you mean, in my opinion. Haura seems plausible to me; I think we can find many examples of a noun being used as a verb without modification, am I right?

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Oct 27, 2015 (19:19)

Alternatively, the verb underlying kuvoitë (PE22) = ?

*mandóta- (on the model of ampanóta-, PE22:114) vs. *mandosta- (cf. Qe. tarwesta-) ? [The first verb would probably require the object to be in a case other than the accusative.]

*termar(na)ta-?

Also, in the context of BAR, consider the Qenya noun varta-në (old sense "service")... which reminded me of Latin con-servare, the Ibero-Romance guardar (< Germanic wardôn) & Greek fylágô / fýlagma.

In Finno-Ugric, a two-word solution is also possible and often preferred in Finnish — similar to (hó)panya/satë mandonna/varile-n(na).

Tamas Ferencz Oct 28, 2015 (13:37)

+ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ
KUB is a good idea, although a bit too much associated with secrecy, hiding; but that is not necessarily a problem.

Tamas Ferencz Oct 28, 2015 (13:40)

The verb might be *kuv- or *kuvu-?

Björn Fromén Oct 28, 2015 (22:38)

+Tamas Ferencz
Probably *kuv-, but it would clash with the attested kuv- 'bow' (PE 22:102).

Tamas Ferencz Oct 29, 2015 (08:55)

+Björn Fromén
I don't mind a bit of homonymy:) Besides, kuv- 'bow' at least has a possible alternative in kaw-

Tamas Ferencz Oct 29, 2015 (16:44)

+Björn Fromén actually, the frequentative form kukumba on p112 suggests that Tolkien thought the verb 'to bow' to be +#kumba-, so there may be a possibility to avoid homonymy after all.

Björn Fromén Oct 29, 2015 (17:27)

+Tamas Ferencz
According to p 112, the mb in kukumba reflects the doubled medial bb. Doubled medials were a characteristic of the repetitive (frequentative) forms.  So kukumba regularly corresponds to the simple kuv- (< kub-), just as qeqetta- to the simple qet-.

Tamas Ferencz Oct 29, 2015 (18:17)

+Björn Fromén gotcha

Björn Fromén Oct 29, 2015 (23:20)

KAW- in late-source Q means 'shelter' (cauma 'protection, shelter, shield'). Perhaps *cauta- could be used for 'put away, lay in store (for protection)'?

Tamas Ferencz Oct 30, 2015 (00:47)

+Björn Fromén well that's not a million miles away from KHAW is it
It could work.

Björn Fromén Oct 30, 2015 (17:30)

+Tamas Ferencz
You are right of course that *hauta- would be closer to the mark semantically; but I was again looking for a way to avoid homonymy (attested hauta- means 'cease, stop').