Post E1ifHmTHNX7

Tamas Ferencz Aug 16, 2018 (11:31)

Is there now a consensus out there what the proper genitive of nouns the type of koa should be? I think most people settle on kavo but perhaps someone has found some evidence that it is indeed so?
I have looked through PE21 which has declensions for all noun forms under the sun, especially the section on vocalic nouns on pages 38-40, and of course it has everything except Coa type nouns - perhaps at this point Tolkien imagined that these would be Có forms instead?
At any rate when it comes to declining koa, toa etc. in the genitive I vacillate between kavo and , these days leaning towards the latter.

Any thoughts?

Roman Rausch Aug 16, 2018 (14:29)

If I remember correctly, there was also the suggestion *kawo > *koo > *kuo, based on a sound shift note attested in one of the PEs which I cannot find anymore...

Paul Strack Aug 16, 2018 (14:45)

+Roman Rausch you are thinking of PE19/63, probably. And I like the idea of cuo myself, since we would also have [kawa] > [koa] but [kawo] > [kuo]

Roman Rausch Aug 16, 2018 (14:50)

+Paul Strack Yes, that's it, awo > au-o > öo > uo (PE19:63)! Clearly the best evidence for the genitive of koa so far, so that gets my vote (sounds the best as well imo).

Tamas Ferencz Aug 16, 2018 (15:05)

Great, so probably *kuo it is - can we extend this pattern to other Coa type nouns? Loa, toa etc.?

Paul Strack Aug 16, 2018 (15:21)

+Tamas Ferencz the two common ways of getting Xoa are primitive *Xawa and *Xowa, and in both cases Xawo/Xowo > Xuo. So I think it’s likely the pattern would generalize.

Tamas Ferencz Aug 16, 2018 (15:25)

+Paul Strack thank you- I will be adding this to the first Atanquesta revision, too.

Andre Polykanine Aug 16, 2018 (21:39)

Thank you very much! (Removing a question on Atanquesta from my large text file :)).

Tamas Ferencz Aug 16, 2018 (21:40)

+Andre Polykanine oh dear. Is it that bad? ☺️

Andre Polykanine Aug 16, 2018 (21:50)

+Tamas Ferencz Oh no! :) It is super great, thank you again for the hard work you've done for it. It's me, not you: For a definite reason (I believe, you know it) I have no access to any Tolkienian scriptures, so I have to dig in myself, and often there are cases when questions arise (like that one with the Coa-type words). As I told you before, the most of that file is actually word choice questions, like: "háno? Not Toron? I always thought it was Toron, so could you explain?"). Háno vs. Toron is just an example, and as we have already discussed it, I won't ask about that particular word, but there are... kinda lot of them in there :). And again, my goal is not to complain or to say "you're wrong", I just would like to explain things for myself. Thus... so many questions :).

Tamas Ferencz Aug 17, 2018 (00:30)

+Andre Polykanine don't worry, I wasn't serious. And please do feel free to ask questions, however small. My own understanding grows with every question I answer, even when I am unable to answer them.