Post FGsSUtJpr2L

Tamas Ferencz Jan 17, 2018 (10:02)

Síra ménen kame keura lendalávanya (passport) [1]; fastalima vanta né: síra lauka lá noa, i hrisse tikune [2] astasse mal i maller lá níti; ente Anar kále titta.

[1] láva "permit, permission" DAB, cf. sáva "juice" SAB; exe kárime quettar rá Ing. "passport": lendalasse, lendatengwe, lendanéme
[2] Intyanen eke mon keuta i ArinQuenya kariquetta (action-word, verb) tique- ve tiku- itan ola véla niku-. Niku- "freeze" - tiku- "thaw". Netya.

Ицхак Пензев Jan 17, 2018 (10:30)

Nan, nómelmassen ata hrísa (i calatengwë ná carna ter i hendestë sambenyallo):

Tamas Ferencz Jan 17, 2018 (11:06)

+Ицхак Пензев netya! Malka núra i hrisse? Nas lange ringa?

Ицхак Пензев Jan 17, 2018 (12:09)

+Tamas Ferencz Uan cavë quetë, malca núra i hrissë, an uan eteménië avanna. Hrísa hinna. Navin sa núra palto atta hya ambë, tensi! Lá ringa, ve illumë yá lantëa hrissë. Cenasta rië tyeller neldë hya canta ringëo (℃).

Robert Reynolds Jan 17, 2018 (17:51)

Irrísie ata sinome yú, mal navinyes rie núra leperion nelde hya kanta. Tyelle min ringeo (℃): amalauka lá Ringaresse. Konnehtikutesse [Connecticut], hrisse rimba hrívesse ananta linquelli sapsarraxer ena!

Tamas Ferencz Jan 17, 2018 (18:15)

+Robert Reynolds tyelle min? Ta lá urra - ekendien síra mi Rusie ringe anyane tyeller enekkainen otso ní nixetixe (freezing point)

(this brings me to ask: zero? sixty?)

Robert Reynolds Jan 17, 2018 (20:06)

+Tamas Ferencz​​​ É lás urra: i hrisse *tíkua tensi. Tyeller otso *?enquean [based on VT42:26 author's note 1 and CE form en-ek(w) on page 24] ní nixetixe lange ringa!

Ицхак Пензев Jan 18, 2018 (11:51)

Having compared most of the published materials about numerals (PE14:49, 82, VT48:6-13, VT42:26), I'd safely reconstruct "60" as enecquain or enenquain. If you dislike -quain, use -quëan, though I think it is not contrastive enough (I always have problems with distinguishing sixty from sixteen in oral English).
The concept of niquetixë (that's how I would amend "freezing point") is convenient. Ní n. is "below f.p.", but how would you say "above f.p."? Or n.? To n.?

Tamas Ferencz Jan 18, 2018 (12:15)

+Ицхак Пензев the cluster cqu looks suspicious so *enenquain is the one I'd vote for. Yuquain, nelquain, kanquain, lemenquain, enenquain, otsoquain, toloquain, menelquain.
'above' I'd go for or. To I usually use for "on the surface of" when the simple locative is not precise enough.

Ицхак Пензев Jan 18, 2018 (13:09)

+Tamas Ferencz I agree with everything except lemenquain that should be lepenquain (cf. lepenquë VT48:21) and "90" should be neterquain (cf. neterquë ibidem) that you perhaps mistyped.

Tamas Ferencz Jan 18, 2018 (13:11)

I have no idea where that menel came from. Thanks!

Ицхак Пензев Jan 18, 2018 (13:46)

As for measures: do you use leper for "inch" (2.54 cm) or for "digit" (appr. 2.0 cm)? The latter would be more convenient as more compatible with decimal system, as 4 digits = 1 palm (Q. palta), and 48 digits = 2 ells (cubits, perranga in NQNT) = 1 yard (Q. ranga) that is appr. 1 m.

Tamas Ferencz Jan 18, 2018 (13:54)

+Ицхак Пензев I used it in the sense of 'digit' but without any precise value in mind, just approximately.

Tamas Ferencz Jan 18, 2018 (13:56)

As for 'inch' we could use nápo 'thumb' for that.
Also, 1 rangwe 'fathom' = 2 rangar 'yards'?

Ицхак Пензев Jan 18, 2018 (14:12)

I don't insist on precise values :-) approximately is enough ;-)

Tamas Ferencz Jan 18, 2018 (14:41)

olet "forearm" is an alternative for perranga

Robert Reynolds Jan 18, 2018 (15:05)

Based on the prefixes in the “​-teen” series and the sequence above, I’m now thinking yuquean, nelquean, kanquean, lepenquean, enenquean, otoquean, tolquean, neterquean. I personally like the etymology quean < ✶kwayam, but dissimilation gives quain < quean readily enough and is equally well attested, so it seems equally valid to me: they should be coexisting, compatible variants. The only significant difference that I see from the amended sequence above is otoquean, otoquain instead of otsoquain: the prefixes seem based on bisyllabic roots so otso < ✶otoso seems less likely than oto-​ < ✶oto-​. I’ve also syncopated nel(e)quean, kanaquean, toloquean, especially since such numbers seem likely to be older compounds.

Ицхак Пензев Jan 18, 2018 (15:17)

+Robert Reynolds I'm sure we can use -quain and -quean as coexisting free variants. Your remark about otoquë and otoquain seems valid, too. As for vowels in nelequë, canaquë and toloquë (and corresponding tens), I suppose we may give freedom for both variants, with a syncope and without it.

Robert Reynolds Jan 18, 2018 (15:22)

Regarding above/below prepositions for temperature, I’m thinking or and nu make a nice symmetric pair as they derive from naturally opposite roots; however, also seems valid and to may be a natural opposite of .

Robert Reynolds Jan 18, 2018 (15:30)

+Ицхак Пензев I agree that the syncopation may also yield free variants, as Tolkien directly attested synopated nelque and the roots/CE forms for the other two aren’t based on long vowels that could inhibit syncopation and yet he didn’t syncopate either of them.

Ицхак Пензев Jan 18, 2018 (16:35)

+Robert Reynolds yes, or and nu are a natural pair! I second your opinion.

James Coish Jan 20, 2018 (21:56)

+Tamas Ferencz cubit usually included the hand from wrist to middle fingertip. I wholeheartedly agree with nápo for inch as that was what was measured.