G+ LoME Archive
May 23, 2017 (22:31)
Just searching for a Sindarin word for "nobody", stumbled across
, sources given are TI/281,283,314. I have no access to the Treason of Isengard (HoME7) and I found no other wordlist with this entry, could anyone check and if the word appears there indeed give the sentence (or explanation) it comes along with?
May 23, 2017 (23:49)
which is al-+pen.
May 24, 2017 (01:06)
It's probably referring to
"Nomenlands" which is in Eldamo. I will check the source material when I get home.
May 24, 2017 (01:48)
Yep, I just confirmed it:
appears on all three pages. See Roman Rausch's analysis here:
May 24, 2017 (02:01)
Like Fiona, I say
, with liquid mutation.
May 24, 2017 (02:04)
I think vocalic mutation because the prefix used to be ala-.
May 24, 2017 (02:11)
. Both may work. Though the latter is a compound word, while the former employs a prefix,
May 24, 2017 (07:58)
Thanks a lot! :D Glad I asked, seems like it's a pretty shortsighted interpretation to gloss uvan as "nobody" :) And thanks a lot for the alternatives!
The sentence I was asked to translate, among other's, was "trust nobody". Given I also found no real match for "trust" (neither noun nor verb with this connotation) I will probably go with something along "Listen to noone's word".
May 25, 2017 (22:02)
certainly happens to look like a combination of
which would be something of a Finnicism (Finnish having the subject/nominative
, direct object
, from interrogative pronoun
May 26, 2017 (00:24)
For what it's worth, Slavic works this way as well. E.g. Czech
"nobody" (lit. "not-who").
May 27, 2017 (11:03)
Same in Hungarian:
May 27, 2017 (15:14)
In Japanese, it's daremo, which is dare "who?" + -mo. You can only use it in a negative sentence, because -mo isn't really negative, it's more like a conditional. "Dare iru ka?" - "who's there?", "daremo inai" -"no one's there."
May 28, 2017 (14:20)
The thing I am just wondering about is, if
indeed is "nobody" and
"people", then how come the translation of Uvanwaith is Noman*lands*? Seems a bit far-fetched that the part "lands" is only implied...
May 28, 2017 (16:33)
Gwaith can also be used to indicate the place where a certain people live.
May 28, 2017 (16:33)
Jun 05, 2017 (11:02)
but the root is an ancient reversible and hence underlyingly
. So why no liquid when even Quenya has
Jun 05, 2017 (17:36)
It is a possibility, but we don't have any evidence to decide the question for us either way yet.