Post FPZSsRvdR5K

Tamas Ferencz May 06, 2018 (17:54)

Concerning the verbal derivates of the root SKEY I am now pretty much settled on the pair *xéya- "pass (of time, intransitive)", and *xíta- "pass, spend (time, transitive)"

Paul Strack May 06, 2018 (18:59)

I think xéta- is more likely. [ei] > [ī] only if unstressed, but the sundoma of a basic verb would almost always be stressed.

Paul Strack May 06, 2018 (19:08)

Nevermind, I checked the old thread and saw that you got xíta- by analogy with cíta. I can’t object to that

Tamas Ferencz May 06, 2018 (19:14)

+Paul Strack good! :)

Paul Strack May 06, 2018 (21:05)

BTW, unless you object, I'm adding both of these to Eldamo

Paul Strack May 06, 2018 (21:14)

Actually, how would the intransitive form be used? I am asking because it is possible the transitive form might simply be used impersonally: xítanen loa Gondoresse “I spent a year in Gondor” vs. (perhaps) xítane lúme ar lá tulenes “An hour passed (lit. passed an hour) and he did not come”

Tamas Ferencz May 06, 2018 (21:26)

+Paul Strack actually I thought "time passes" lúme xéya as an active verb.

Paul Strack May 06, 2018 (21:32)

Yes, but an intransitive/transitive pair would generally have the same subject. As in oronyen “I rose” vs. ortanen mánya “I raised my hand”. In this case, time is the subject of the intransitive form but the object of the transitive form.

I feel an impersonal construction is somehow more “Quenya-ish”: xítane lú “passed the time” vs. lú xéyane “time passed”.

Paul Strack May 06, 2018 (22:05)

I apologize for keeping raising objections, but what about using attested: ᴱQ. lúta- “to have time pass”? The root LU clearly survived, so it could easily remain valid, and its formation and etymology is a lot more straightforward.

Paul Strack May 06, 2018 (22:07)

So lútane “time passed”, lútane loa “a year passed, (lit.) passed a year” and lútanen loa Gondoresse “I spent a year in Gondor”.

Paul Strack May 06, 2018 (22:10)

There is also ᴹQ. oi- “to live, pass one’s days”, so alternately oinen loa Gondoresse “I spent a year in Gondor”

Tamas Ferencz May 07, 2018 (00:53)

I feel SKEY as a root is to clearly connected to the passing of time to be abandoned.
xítane lú feels wrong to me, somehow does not fit into the impersonal constructions.
_lúta- can indeed be a valid alternative/synonym.

Paul Strack May 07, 2018 (04:33)

+Tamas Ferencz SKEY is a nice root, so I will go ahead and put these in, but I will have to link them to lúta- and oi- as attested alternatives. However, some people may prefer neologisms derived from later roots over attested words from earlier periods, so having the alternatives doesn’t hurt, especially since I think it’s very unlikely we will ever use xéya- or xíta- for any other purpose.