G+ LoME Archive
Post FiMYGbt3r6D
James Coish, Discussion, Hjalmar Holm, Ekin Gören, Tamas Ferencz

Hjalmar Holm Nov 27, 2016 (00:40)

After re-reading page 147 in PE 22, i thought about this

"before of time. PHA, APHA. enge. 1 2
before, in front of place. KHYA .13
after {later than) of time. KA, KATA. (e)uva.14
after, behind of place. PA./PATA.15
[Added above] afar, khyar; katar, patar.16
[Added below] fai; afea. 17"

Note how the word origin from the root PHA specifically has been amended below. Probably C.E. PHA-->Q. fai, as has previously been estimated. But afea? The -ea ending looks a lot like a Q. adjectival suffix. Maybe that is because afea is an adjective, "earlier" or "early" for example.

Tamas Ferencz Nov 27, 2016 (10:53)

I agree, it is conceivable that it is an adjective. Good thinking

James Coish Nov 27, 2016 (19:21)

and maybe the -r in afar, khyar, katar, patar is the old allative ending? cf. mir, tar.

Hjalmar Holm Nov 28, 2016 (12:14)

+James Coish Do you mean kyar as "forward" and patar as "backwards, towards the rear"?
+Tamas Ferencz Thanks! And quite opportunistically thinking, we lack a word for "early", don't we? Maybe guesswork is sometimes better that reconstructing another neologism? But i want more responses first, of course. Maybe someone is able to think even better and further.

Tamas Ferencz Nov 28, 2016 (12:36)

+James Coish not necessarily, see on the same page sír "now" which doesn't seem to have an allative sense

Hjalmar Holm Nov 28, 2016 (12:38)

I think the words added above are eldarin and the ones below, fai, afea, are Quenya. Thus I do not agree with James about the allative.

James Coish Nov 30, 2016 (18:19)

I agree those above are Eldarin, but couldn't that support the argument for the “old” allative ending? Khyar becoming hyar in Quenya. Sír could be sí + -r, “towards now”.

Ekin Gören Dec 02, 2016 (08:44)

If we are in agreement that the "[Added above]" part is Eldarin, then I think Quenya's allative suffix -r is out of the question, because its Eldarin form is -da. As we see in sir(a), with its Eldarin form sida.