Post FtK644sYRu9

Hjalmar Holm Jan 11, 2015 (01:33)

Anyone have any idea of a neosindarin word for bag (or similar object that one puts other object in for storage or transport)? I had the idea of translating the first page in The Hobbit, but lack a name for Bilbo Baggins, and I think the surname almost have to have a bag-like-meaning. 

Tamas Ferencz Jan 11, 2015 (11:55)

Indeed this is one of those simple words that seem to be mm missing from all of the languages. I am still hunting...

I don't think **colil would work. That syllabic L which is behind the suffix followed stops like t, k, not l.

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Jan 11, 2015 (14:12)

There appears to be an old Qenya word poko "bag" in PE12:75 which could provide ground for ideas like S *pôg, col⁽ʷ⁾-/cúl-bog (vs. -phog).

- ô pro û, due to OS *-o as in brôg, pôd

Tamas Ferencz Jan 11, 2015 (15:41)

Indeed I have just found poko in the Quenya Lexicon myself, too. I think we can add the NeoSindarin cognate to VQP

Hjalmar Holm Jan 11, 2015 (21:56)

Eglerio i mellyn vaer hin! Thank you!

Hjalmar Holm Jan 18, 2015 (13:40)

So, a suitable name made from pôg, but which is not too similar to the verb pog-... And I have the idea that  the initial B in Bilbo might be a P in a sindarin version, both for the allitteration and because I believe that reflects the sindarin phonology better. Ideas?

Tamas Ferencz Jan 18, 2015 (13:53)

+Hjalmar Holm why does an initial P reflect the S phonology better than an initial B?

Hjalmar Holm Jan 18, 2015 (14:24)

I found more words with initial Pi- than Bi-, but really, it was more of a question, a thought. Sorry if it sounded like I know what I'm doing.

Hjalmar Holm Jan 20, 2015 (12:26)

Might Pôgion be a translation for Baggins?

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Jan 20, 2015 (23:14)

+Hjalmar Holm
Just remember that when you combine (monosyllabic) words that have a long vowel into a compound, the vowels shorten, as in

gîl + dîs = Gildis
mîr + tân = mírdan
hîr + iôn = Hirion ("son of lord")

so pôg would also contract to pog-.

* Pog-ion might work, unless another (adjectival/agental) element like, say, –ben (WJ:372, 376) should click even better; let us observe that Westron Labingi "Baggins" resembles at least superficially certain Germanic forms, especially ON/Icelandic weak masculine nouns of the type ættingi "kinsman", foringi "leader" (this –ingi is of the same origin as Old English genga "(fellow-)traveler, companion" in A Handbook of Germanic Etymology, p. 126).

Hjalmar Holm Jan 21, 2015 (23:45)

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ
Thank you! -ben might be better, as you say.

Hjalmar Holm Feb 18, 2015 (15:46)

Proposed to me was this, as a translation of Baggins: "Baggins": *Pogodion - Son of Little Bag (*pôg+-od+-ion).