I think it is important (1) to find and fill the gaps in the basic vocabulary and (2) make choices on different variations of certain words (like "daughter" – is the most regular word anel? seldë? yeldë? yendë?), so that we could (3) start practicing chats on various everyday topics.
Btw, if Sindarin has henneth for "window", Quenya equivalent should be hendestë, shouldn't it?
Tamas Ferencz Dec 12, 2017 (19:10)
Fiona Jallings Dec 12, 2017 (20:38)
Paul Strack Dec 12, 2017 (20:59)
It’s not just a question of synonyms either. There are a large number homonyms with wildly different and even contradictory meaning, which makes reading comprehension very difficult.
I don’t think Tolkien would have tolerated a language in which yelde, yende and selde all simultaneously meant “sister” and I don’t think we should either.
However, making the thousands decisions needed to produce an internally consistent Elvish vocabulary is a stupidly huge amount of work, requiring years of research, so I’m not surprised it hasn’t been done yet.
Александр Запрягаев Dec 13, 2017 (13:18)
Tamas Ferencz Dec 13, 2017 (13:34)
I also think that having choice in the vocabulary would give the langauge a chance to evolve organically - for instance, if the number of speakers picks up and people start using the language, in time the various words having the same meaning could start to diverge and gain added colour (e.g. users may start applying one of the words for "daughter" to daughter-in-laws).
Paul Strack Dec 14, 2017 (01:59)
Regarding which I think is “best”, I think the question is easy to answer by comparing to Sindarin. In the Etymologies we have archaic †sell “girl”, from which is derived N. iell “daughter” on analogy with N. ionn “son”. But in the King’s Letter we have sellath “daughters” and in the Túrin Fragment have the word sel: unglossed, but from context clearly “daughter”. This indicates that by the 1950s, Tolkien changed N. iell >> S. sel(l). For consistency with its Sindarin cognate, we should probably use Q. selde for “daughter”. The later validity of this form is supported by the diminutive finger name selye from “Eldarin Hands, Fingers and Numbers”.
If we all agree that having a normative grammar for the languages is a good thing, I think it is also worth aspiring to have a normative vocabulary list as well, especially if we want to have a coherent language. Such a normative vocabulary is a larger and more difficult undertaking, but it is, in fact, the ultimate goal of my Eldamo project. At the rate I am going, it will probably be another 5 or 6 years before I get there, though. Something community based might get there sooner, and produce a better result.
And +Александр Запрягаев I agree that basing such a normative vocabulary on proper roots and phonological histories is essential.
Ицхак Пензев Dec 14, 2017 (11:10)
That is why I would vote for a normative vocabulary, too.
Tamas Ferencz Dec 14, 2017 (11:39)
(and having unified national standards is absolutely fine until people start getting stigmatised for not speaking "the norm", as I have seen so many times in Hungary, for instance, or what went on in the UK at the BBC for a very long time - but that is veering off-topic now)
Ицхак Пензев Dec 14, 2017 (12:07)
Tamas Ferencz Dec 14, 2017 (12:25)
Ицхак Пензев Dec 14, 2017 (13:13)
Tamas Ferencz Dec 14, 2017 (13:40)
Paul Strack Dec 14, 2017 (15:43)
Anyone using anel should be publicly ridiculed, however ;)
Paul Strack Dec 14, 2017 (16:02)
Ицхак Пензев Dec 14, 2017 (16:19)