Post JP3QDZm8kdq

Tamas Ferencz Jul 15, 2014 (16:12)

Has anyone any tips how to say

- someone's right (prerogative, privilege, boon, ius)
- that someone is (in the) right in Quenya?

Also, is the allative, and the prep. na our best bet to express against, versus, opposed to?

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Jul 16, 2014 (14:08)

For "to be right", Latin has recte sentire and vera dicere; compare these with Finnish olla oikeassa "to be in [the] right"[1] and puhua totta (< tosi, adj/n[2]).

Latin rectus would seem to correspond to Q téra, téna rather well. But with the above ideas, faila and naitë also seem like workable starting points.

Upon selecting the verb, attention should of course be paid to semantic unambiguity which may require a noun (or adverb) derivative instead of an adjective, and/or the use of a case ending.

[1] Finnish oikea can refer to either the physical direction or the positive truth quality.

Tamas Ferencz Jul 16, 2014 (14:24)

Indeed a clever choice of one of those three adjectives or their derivatives will cover most of the possibilities. Thanks, Sami!

Tamas Ferencz Jul 16, 2014 (15:08)

+Evan Winterhavik
not sure about that; against does not necessarily mean 'in the opposite direction', and anyway au-, oa, hó- cover that quite well.

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Jul 16, 2014 (17:01)

Concerning the first question:

Words that represent aspects of Latin ius are/include Q sanyë and Qe maxilis (maxilist-) "lordship" (with adj. maxima "powerful, having possession, having authority”, PE12:57/58).

Perhaps a compound noun conveying the idea of "a fair claim" could be constructed from alya-/amya-/mai- combined with iquis, –ta (Qe, "a request") or similar unitary derivative from THUR-2 (of minasurië) or NAM- (VT41:13).

Roman Rausch Jul 17, 2014 (00:53)

Regarding 'the right' we have lenéme 'with leave' (in sense of 'permission'). PE17:95 gives 'with', so +#néme might be 'leave, permission' (perhaps with *NEM- as a variant of NAM-?). This could be used depending on the context.

Regarding 'to be right' why not Q. téra, N. tîr 'straight, right'? The 'right' here can hardly be meant in a directional sense, but rather seems to come from the same spatial metaphor underlying English 'getting the facts straight'.

Regarding the allative for 'against': I would say it's more than a bet, it's basically attested in ohta-káre Valannar. Though the Númenor-texts mostly translate it literally as 'on Powers', SD:247 has 'against Powers'.
If not suitable in a given context, one could also use *nan from Sindarin dan 'against', if really needed. With a long vowel it's already attested as a conjunction.

Tamas Ferencz Jul 17, 2014 (09:35)

+Roman Rausch
that is good analysis, Roman, thank you. +#néme is a good find!
Then there is lav- 'yield, grant, allow', so prhaps *lávie? Or what would DAB + -da give, *lamna? 'something that is granted'?

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Jul 17, 2014 (15:50)

The root NIB- might imaginably be utilized to produce a form to say "facing, confronting, (ad)versus"; either a would-be neo-preposition/postposition, after the model of attestations like epë, terë,harë (vs. ones ending in -i and -a) — or a fitting verb-form (personless present continuous or dat. inf. -ien) to take the place of a preposition.

Tamas Ferencz Jul 17, 2014 (15:58)

+ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ
'facing sg' could also possibly be rendered as querna +-nna 'turned towards sg'

Ицхак Пензев Jul 20, 2014 (13:10)

As for "to be right", náma[lya] naitë/téra "your judgement is true" was used in FB Quenya Chat (the "Nyatil" :) ) several times without any critique.