Post ND5PwZ6bBUd

Hjalmar Holm Jun 24, 2015 (12:03)

Peded laew, ach eno i Silevril ú-dhendellin

Much talk and little work.

Björn Fromén Jun 24, 2015 (23:47)

Síla Gil-Estel a·phain, dandol o Dûn vi Gilith.

Hjalmar Holm Jun 25, 2015 (10:51)

The star of hope shines for all, returns from West in starlight?

Björn Fromén Jun 25, 2015 (23:08)

+Hjalmar Holm  Yes, at least one Silmaril has come back, while the two others remain hidden.
The intended meaning of vi Gilith is 'in the sky', 'in Ilmen' ("[N] gilith = Q ilmen" Etym.s.v. WIL-).

Ekin Gören Jun 27, 2015 (02:01)

I remember seeing gilith as "region where the stars are" but Salo used it as "starlight" and Eldamo says the same:

http://eldamo.sourceforge.net/content/words/word-2541963429.html

Ilmen however is indeed given as "Place of Starlight". I'm not sure what gilith should mean but I'd opt for menel to say "sky".

Björn Fromén Jun 28, 2015 (17:59)

+Ekin Gören  Don't you regard The Etymologies as a valid source then?

Ekin Gören Jun 28, 2015 (22:28)

Of course I do. It's just that I find using noun + gerund (suffix) combinations to be a bit ambiguous. Ilmen is more defined as opposed to gilith. Ilma, "starlight" and men, "way, direction, place, spot".

Paul Strack Jun 29, 2015 (05:04)

+Björn Fromén I am inclined to agree with +Ekin Gören. My reading of the Etymologies (Ety/GIL) is that most likely gilith = Ilma, not Ilmen, despite what it says in Ety/WIL. The likelier Noldorin cognate of Ilmen seems to be the indistinct form Gilwen (Ety/GIL), since both are derived from GIL + MEN = "star-place, shine-place".

As for gilith, I think it originated as the gerund of the verbal root GIL "shine (white)", perhaps originally having the sense "*shining", and drifted to became "starlight" by association with  gil "star".

Björn Fromén Jun 29, 2015 (14:47)

+Paul Strack  Well, from 'starlight' it could as easily have developed the more specialized sense 'region of starlight'. After all the only unambiguous gloss of gilith is "= Q ilmen", with the parallel gwilith (*'flying' >) "'air' as a region = Q vilwa".