Post ND5PwZ6bBUd

Hjalmar Holm Jun 24, 2015 (12:03)

Peded laew, ach eno i Silevril ú-dhendellin

Much talk and little work.

Björn Fromén Jun 24, 2015 (23:47)

Síla Gil-Estel a·phain, dandol o Dûn vi Gilith.

Hjalmar Holm Jun 25, 2015 (10:51)

The star of hope shines for all, returns from West in starlight?

Björn Fromén Jun 25, 2015 (23:08)

+Hjalmar Holm  Yes, at least one Silmaril has come back, while the two others remain hidden.
The intended meaning of vi Gilith is 'in the sky', 'in Ilmen' ("[N] gilith = Q ilmen" Etym.s.v. WIL-).

Ekin Gören Jun 27, 2015 (02:01)

I remember seeing gilith as "region where the stars are" but Salo used it as "starlight" and Eldamo says the same:

Ilmen however is indeed given as "Place of Starlight". I'm not sure what gilith should mean but I'd opt for menel to say "sky".

Björn Fromén Jun 28, 2015 (17:59)

+Ekin Gören  Don't you regard The Etymologies as a valid source then?

Ekin Gören Jun 28, 2015 (22:28)

Of course I do. It's just that I find using noun + gerund (suffix) combinations to be a bit ambiguous. Ilmen is more defined as opposed to gilith. Ilma, "starlight" and men, "way, direction, place, spot".

Paul Strack Jun 29, 2015 (05:04)

+Björn Fromén I am inclined to agree with +Ekin Gören. My reading of the Etymologies (Ety/GIL) is that most likely gilith = Ilma, not Ilmen, despite what it says in Ety/WIL. The likelier Noldorin cognate of Ilmen seems to be the indistinct form Gilwen (Ety/GIL), since both are derived from GIL + MEN = "star-place, shine-place".

As for gilith, I think it originated as the gerund of the verbal root GIL "shine (white)", perhaps originally having the sense "*shining", and drifted to became "starlight" by association with  gil "star".

Björn Fromén Jun 29, 2015 (14:47)

+Paul Strack  Well, from 'starlight' it could as easily have developed the more specialized sense 'region of starlight'. After all the only unambiguous gloss of gilith is "= Q ilmen", with the parallel gwilith (*'flying' >) "'air' as a region = Q vilwa".