Post PpEkr4sSDVn

Robert Reynolds Feb 28, 2018 (17:59)

Rike amaríkie rike órikombe véla raita amaraikiénen raima raiweva: úkaraite ta alasaila.

Hard-striving to twist a group of óreli is like ensnaring with great crookedness a lace net: unproductive and unwise.


This is from playing around with sound repetitions and alternative word meanings. It feels to me slightly forced or awkward, yet still amusing; and writing it was fun.

Tamas Ferencz Feb 28, 2018 (18:26)

I like it, with the note that órikombe as a fixed compound is unikely IMHO.

Robert Reynolds Feb 28, 2018 (18:34)

+Tamas Ferencz Agreed: I used it (inspired by órikuvoite) to get the rik sequence again with an m and an ironic meaning in context. Part of the "group" idea is that one óre would be easier to distort than many. There's plenty of room for more creative thinking. 🙂

Robert Reynolds Feb 28, 2018 (20:18)

My attempt to read this out loud: - 2018-02-28 14.16.17.ogg

Tamas Ferencz Feb 28, 2018 (20:39)

+Robert Reynolds you certainly roll your R-s with a vengeance 😋

Robert Reynolds Feb 28, 2018 (21:11)

+Tamas Ferencz Lol: that's the only way that I can roll them at all! I need to practice...

Robert Reynolds Mar 01, 2018 (13:00)

Very smooth and fluid. 🙂 There are so many ways to render our beautiful language. As we increase our written fluency, it may be that we will speak Quenya verbally more often.

Tamas Ferencz Mar 01, 2018 (13:09)

+Robert Reynolds yes, that day may come yet. I feel I still need more written practice to become confident in my grammar and vocabulary, to cement my own dialect.
In the meantime I am sure there are folks over on Discord who are happy to have a voice chat:)

Robert Reynolds Mar 01, 2018 (13:16)

+Tamas Ferencz Me too: I'm not remotely ready for voice chatting. Real-time, spoken or written, is not where my strengths lie. I just woke up and must be groggy: I may have misworded the above. I'd been thinking of people reading (or singing) Quenya texts: there are some YouTube videos of variable quality now but I think they're held back by the small number of speakers and the short length of most Quenya texts. Those may be improving.

Tamas Ferencz Mar 01, 2018 (13:37)

+Robert Reynolds since we don't really have a lot of reference points how Quenya really would sound like (yes, we do have recordings of Tolkien speaking but he is reciting poetry, not everyday prose) our own native languages and accents will invariably colour how we speak Quenya, and that is fine. But indeed there will be need of more good quality recordings if we'd like people to learn the language.

Robert Reynolds Mar 01, 2018 (13:48)

+Tamas Ferencz Agreed, and IIRC, even Tolkien doesn’t always follow his own pronunciation guides in those recordings. A while back, I found a YouTube channel by an Italian woman reading Quenya with background music. I can’t vouch for anyone’s technical accuracy, having no linguistic training and almost no exposure to linguistically trained persons speaking Quenya, but her pronunciation sounds generally euphonic to my ears. - I Yessessë (reciting of first Chapter of Genesis in Quenya)

Tamas Ferencz Mar 01, 2018 (14:03)

+Robert Reynolds indeed, she speaks pleasantly. She has the advantage of being an Italian speaker, and the phonetic set of her language is not that far from that of Quenya; e.g. IIRC all (or very many of them?) Italian words end i na vowel and they are never silent; also single vowels are not "diphtongified" like in most English dialects.

Robert Reynolds Mar 01, 2018 (14:32)

+Tamas Ferencz That's my understanding, too, and Rs trilled and vowels often (always?) unaspirated with similar qualities. Speaking from personal experience, it's difficult for many native English/American speakers to avoid a strong accent. I wonder if there are techniques for improving such elements short of in-person phonology courses...

Tamas Ferencz Mar 01, 2018 (14:56)

+Robert Reynolds off the cuff I can't think of anything other than listening to slow spoken recordings of languages like Italian, Finnish, Hungarian, and I am sure there are others, and trying to imitate, record, and listen back to yourself. Also, maybe Latin would be a good base, but even Latin is pronounced differently in various parts of the world: the Latin pronunciation I learned back in Hungary differs from how people pronounce it here in Britain, etc.

Tamas Ferencz Mar 01, 2018 (15:01)

Also, if I ever get my fat bottom off the seat and write that grammar/primer I have been planning to do, I promise I will include an audio recording for each of the Quenya lesson texts. Not saying I am a master arbiter in Q pronunciation or anything, but it may help a bit.

Robert Reynolds Mar 01, 2018 (17:50)

+Tamas Ferencz Interesting ideas and insights. Including audio with the primer seems like a helpful idea: written description of pronunciation is useful but even approximate spoken renderings can help learners significantly.