Post WL2sbW2up37

James Coish Jan 25, 2017 (02:28)

Since the English "in love" is an adjective would the Quenya equivalent be melwa?

Tamas Ferencz Jan 25, 2017 (10:12)

Possibly. I can also imagine other verbal adjectives like melíte or iríte (to get desire into the picture); or the imperfect participle melila.
Even melmea is a possibility; cf. Hungarian where the adjective "in love" is formed from the noun "love".

Александр Запрягаев Jan 25, 2017 (12:03)

+Tamas Ferencz I believe ite ending is approaching participle in expressing an inherent quality, 'apt to do smth.' So, melíte can mean no more that 'amorous, one who falls in love indiscriminately'.

Tamas Ferencz Jan 25, 2017 (13:04)

+Александр Запрягаев again, you may be right. But then again Tolkien assigned a specific verbal adjective to mean "apt to do sthing" which is -ula. But indeed elsewhere he is talking about -ite having a sort of permanent quality.
Then also we might have the simple *melia.

Tamas Ferencz Jan 25, 2017 (13:38)

BTW if you have a look at the list of verbal adjectives I compiled at - Quenya verbal adjectives and other derived forms I also assigned permanent meanings to the -ite forms

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Jan 25, 2017 (16:39)

In Estonian one finds armu- (inf. armuda, armuma) "to fall in love", past active participle armunud "(fallen) in love". What would, say, *melúna mean in Quenya in light of PE22 contents?

Tamas Ferencz Jan 25, 2017 (17:01)

That is an interesting proposition. page 114 certainly implies that verbs in u often had (or acquired) an inceptive meaning, so indeed -*melu- could mean "fall in love"; as for the passive, the form liruima on p 111, and the fact that -ina remains unchanged in verbs ending in -a, suggests that the form would be *meluina.
Then on pp 135-136 he discusses -u verbs again from a CE perspective, and here he states that it is really the suffixes lu, ru, nu that carry the inceptive meaning, and he cites the forms thillu, thilnu "shine out, appear" which could suggest that our verb would rather look like *mellu, melnu.


Björn Fromén Jan 25, 2017 (23:45)

*melme-sse-a 'en-amour-ed', 'being in love', as meneldea < *menel-(es)se-a 'being in heaven' (Átaremma IIb--V)?

James Coish Jan 25, 2017 (23:47)

I thought of that but melme isn't a noun that one can physically be "in".

Björn Fromén Jan 26, 2017 (00:13)

+James Coish Not physically, but the locative can also be used figuratively, cf. hara máriesse 'stay in happiness', sangiessemman 'in our necessities'.

Tamas Ferencz Jan 26, 2017 (08:54)

+James Coish is the English "love" a noun that we can be physically "in"?

Александр Запрягаев Jan 26, 2017 (11:12)

By the way: I needed 'in love' before, and that time expressed it as mel(m)inqua, with KWA 'full', as 'love-filled'.

Tamas Ferencz Jan 26, 2017 (12:09)

+Александр Запрягаев that is also a good solution. Now let someone say Quenya vocabulary is restricted! :)

James Coish Jan 27, 2017 (00:18)

Tamas it isn't and that's what confuses me. Maybe I take things to literal.

Tamas Ferencz Jan 27, 2017 (09:58)

+James Coish well sure, one needs a fair amount of tinkering with sense and synonyms to translate something to Quenya, at least quite often that's the case

Александр Запрягаев Jan 29, 2017 (08:03)

+Tamas Ferencz Goodness, I've forgotten the most straightforward way of expression, melmerwa/arwa melmeo!