XZ9Xd8XS8ha — G+ LoME Archive

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Feb 22, 2017 (11:52)

At least at an earlier stage there was still the prefix http://eldamo.org/content/words/word-2252155757.html which would make sense combined with later http://eldamo.org/content/words/word-71439553.html ..

http://middle-earth.xenite.org/2014/08/15/what-is-the-literal-translation-of-ulairi/

What is the Literal Translation of Úlairi?

Q: What is the Literal Translation of Úlairi? ANSWER: So far as I know, none of the well-known Tolkien linguists has proposed a formal translation for the word Úlairi, which J.R.R. Tolkien noted …

Tamas Ferencz Feb 22, 2017 (12:07)

That is a very interesting proposition, and perhaps not less plausible than analyzing the name as coming from ú- and DAY

Hjalmar Holm Feb 22, 2017 (15:34)

I find "unholy ones" quite appealing as a term for the nazgûl. And I agree that i might make even more sense than "bad shadowy ones".

Александр Запрягаев Feb 22, 2017 (17:14)

Any why not to connect the opening part with BS gûl 'wraith, sorcerer'? When the initial G goes away according to the rules of Quenya, we get GÛL-airi > Úlairi 'dark-magic spirits'.

Tamas Ferencz Feb 22, 2017 (17:44)

+Александр Запрягаев because I assume gûl comes ultimately from ÑGOL and its g does not go away in Quenya

Александр Запрягаев Feb 22, 2017 (17:48)

+Tamas Ferencz Only if the connection is still felt.

Björn Fromén Feb 22, 2017 (23:07)

Could it be a Quenyaization of a S *gúlaer < gûl 'aer 'dreadful sorcery'?

Young P Feb 23, 2017 (06:45)

+Александр Запрягаев airi seems to mean plural of holiness. cf)airefea
eldamo.org - Eldamo : Quenya : Airefëa

Tamas Ferencz Feb 24, 2017 (09:55)

+Björn Fromén possibly. Perhaps Quenya speakers were aware that a "proper" Quenyaization would yield **Nólair but they felt that would lose the sense of 'bad, wicked' and opted for Úlair. Or, as Alexander says, they simply forgot.

Александр Запрягаев Feb 24, 2017 (11:02)

+Tamas Ferencz in Quenya, there was no implication of evil in ÑGOL, but one of wisdom and of Noldor. If they wanted to have S gûl (or rather BS gûl), they would be very inspired by the appearance of ú which implies bad anyway.

Tamas Ferencz Feb 24, 2017 (12:24)

+Александр Запрягаев didn't I just say the same just in different words? :)

Jenna Carpenter Feb 24, 2017 (14:43)

What would you go for for a Sindarin equivalent if we take it as 'holy'?

Tamas Ferencz Feb 28, 2017 (09:43)

+Jenna Carpenter are uncomfortable with David Salo's *Úlaer?

Александр Запрягаев Feb 28, 2017 (09:44)

+Tamas Ferencz Now *gu/úlaer starts to seem a better idea.

Jenna Carpenter Feb 28, 2017 (09:45)

Well, as Eldamo points out it does look rather like 'Not summer' :D

Александр Запрягаев Feb 28, 2017 (09:46)

+Jenna Carpenter Do you not agree that the Nazgûl are definitely not summer? :D