Post YEypSH4dEjJ

Tamas Ferencz Oct 05, 2018 (12:33)

This is a translation of a poem from my native Hungarian.

Raxa-mentie mi lóme

Ma’ nuhtana sí Isil,
I lóme ma’ úna, úpa,
Ma’ amlunga nánye síra,
Ma’ nuhtana sí Isil.

Ilye Quantar rákine,
Ilye nári rúkine *ruitar,
Ilye melmi nihtassen kaitar,
Ilye Quantar rákine.

Faika raxa óni nóra,
Epe *quíve víla yaime,
Perta sére, perta yalme,
Faika raxa óni nóra.


Cart-trip in the night

How stumped the Moon is today,
The night how deserted, silent,
How very sad today I am,
How stumped the Moon is today.

All that Complete are now broken,
All flames flare in fragments only,
All loves lie in pieces,
All that Complete are now broken.

A wretched cart is running with me,
Behind it as if a wail were trailing,
Half hush, and half clamour,
A wretched cart is running with me.

(apologies for the poor English translation)

Here's the original:

Kocsi-út az éjszakában

Milyen csonka ma a Hold,
Az éj milyen sivatag, néma,
Milyen szomoru vagyok én ma,
Milyen csonka ma a Hold.

Minden Egész eltörött,
Minden láng csak részekben lobban,
Minden szerelem darabokban,
Minden Egész eltörött.

Fut velem egy rossz szekér,
Utána mintha jajszó szállna,
Félig mély csönd és félig lárma,
Fut velem egy rossz szekér.

by Endre Ady


ma' interr and rel here: "how, to what extent, what"
*ruita- vb "flare, blaze, burn" RUY
*quíve adv "as if"

Björn Fromén Oct 08, 2018 (00:06)

I don't see how ma' could mean 'to what extent'. What does the apostrophe stand for?

Tamas Ferencz Oct 08, 2018 (01:20)

+Björn Fromén *manima, manen, *maite etc

Björn Fromén Oct 08, 2018 (23:10)

+Tamas Ferencz
Yes, as an interrogative stem combined with case inflexions ma- could be said to mean ’what’: manen ‘how, in what way’, masse ‘where, in what place’, mallo ‘whence, from what origin’. But as an interrogative particle the simple ma is just a spoken question mark: ma naite means ‘[is it] true?’, not **’how/to what extent true’.

Tamas Ferencz Oct 09, 2018 (09:32)

+Björn Fromén my concept was that in (fast) colloquial Quenya the interrogative pronoun, whatever it would be that expresses "how, to what extent, what" in such constructions (how nice! what a beauty! what monstrosity! - we don't really know what Q uses in these) could be shortened to *ma'.
If I had to put in a full pronoun (makes the lines a bit too long) I'd go for manen.

Björn Fromén Oct 09, 2018 (14:44)

+Tamas Ferencz I see, thanks.
I suppose we can't take for granted that Q would use interrogatives in exclamative clauses that don't include a question.

Tamas Ferencz Oct 09, 2018 (15:17)

+Björn Fromén no, we can't, it could easily use demonstratives as well