Post YzRfuhcXLgh

Robert Reynolds Jan 02, 2018 (14:45)

“A Study in √rō/oro”

Tá Yavanna *alassea, ar tolunes, ortaila rankuryat menelda, ar quentes: ‘Orwe oryuvar orni Kementário, *itan Soroni i Arano ekuvar hare tesse!’ Mal Manwe oronye yú, ar nemne i tolunes ta orwa i ómarya ununte Yavannanna ve súrion tiellon. ‘Lá,’ quentes, ‘rie orni Auleo faren orwe nauvar. Orontissen i Soroni haruvar…’

Then Yavanna was glad, and she stood up, reaching her arms towards the heavens, and she said: ‘High shall climb the trees of Kementári, that the Eagles of the King may house therein!’ But Manwe rose also, and it seemed that he stood to such a height that his voice came down to Yavanna as from the paths of the winds. ‘Nay,’ he said, ‘only the trees of Aule will be tall enough. In the mountains the Eagles shall house…’

This brief excerpt from Quenta Silmarillion uses rather many words from the root: nine in just over three sentences, including three consecutive words at one point.

I barely needed any neologisms. +Tamas Ferencz supplied *itan ‘so that’ in a previous post but I’m uncertain of its origin.

For verb conjugation I used the paradigm in the LVS 13 notes (PE22:164), using orta transitively and orya intransitively with corresponding weak and strong conjugations for their past and future tenses and likewise for intransitive unta. Also, I used short allative in menelda by analogy with locative menelde as more compact than menelenna.

Tamas Ferencz Jan 02, 2018 (15:15)

*itan was modeled on ita, Itas, tai etc.

Ицхак Пензев Jan 02, 2018 (23:20)

Well done, +Robert Reynolds! Though I personally am a bit cautious about notes later than LotR 2nd ed. and "Words, Phrases and Passages". They may be rather experimental.

Robert Reynolds Jan 03, 2018 (18:48)

+Ицхак Пензев That's a valid point. In this case I get the impression that distinguishing between different categories of derived verbs, such as formative/causative and transitive/intransitive usage, leading to various weak and strong forms was a persistent theme from at least QVS onward. Since "Words, Phrases and Passages" is out of print I don't have access to it, so some of my understanding is from secondary sources.

Ицхак Пензев Jan 03, 2018 (23:54)

+Robert Reynolds as for -ta and -ya verbs, I agree that this concept is supported by many other sources, though not always with the same results.

Tamas Ferencz Jan 04, 2018 (00:23)

+Ицхак Пензев I feel a bit of a contradiction here. You would happily adapt Gnomish words into late style Quenya but would discard material just because they're post-LotR? ☺️
Nota bene I am not saying that one can indiscriminately use anything from those late notes and essays but that's not because of their lateness.

Ицхак Пензев Jan 04, 2018 (10:52)

+Tamas Ferencz I do not discard it! I'm just a little cautious as concers revisions. If LVS gives additional information, I accept it gladly!