Post ZPhEo1kqKMb

Robert Reynolds Mar 31, 2018 (14:00)

I’ve been working on (Neo-)Quenya verb conjugation and specifically on some representative examples of various classes and shapes. I’m inviting feedback on the classification (which is intended to be thorough but not comprehensive) and these current forms.

I’m attempting to blend the latest forms with established patterns. These are just the basic verbal tenses, as those should generally suffice for generating compound and participial tenses. After solidifying these, I’ll start adding other derivatives like gerunds, participles, verbal adjectives and nouns, arta.

In particular, the perfect of kelu- and the present of núya- are uncertain to me.

Tamas Ferencz Mar 31, 2018 (14:42)

I think this will be a very good resource - might even ask for your permission to incorporate it in my grammar

Paul Strack Mar 31, 2018 (14:45)

Nice. I think your basis classification system is sound. Right now I use the classification system on PE22/113-114, which I think remained relevant in Tolkien’s later languages. It is essentially the same as your list.

Paul Strack Mar 31, 2018 (15:33)

So I was looking at perfects of u-verbs, and there isn’t a lot of evidence. However, there was a general trend in Quenya to normalize the perfect around the past tense. So I’d guess ekelunie. I would not lengthen the vowel, though, because it doesn’t fit the stress pattern, which would want to put the stress on the u

Edit: actually, ecelúnie is a real possibility

Robert Reynolds Mar 31, 2018 (15:54)

+Tamas Ferencz Thanks! I’m quite open to such efforts. The community would benefit from some centralized, up-to-date references.

Robert Reynolds Mar 31, 2018 (16:00)

+Paul Strack I appreciate your feedback. In particular, if I’d had to reclassify extensively, I would’ve wanted to know early on; now, I can proceed.

The stress pattern was indeed what bothered me, with so many short syllables and the hiatus at the end. I would think ekelúnie to avoid five consecutive short syllables. Borrowing from the past form does seem an Eldarin pattern and that would be more likely as an in-universe later form than the glide consonant y.

Tamas Ferencz Mar 31, 2018 (18:08)

What does Pres. Retro. stand for exactly?

Robert Reynolds Mar 31, 2018 (18:18)

+Tamas Ferencz Present Retrospective, aka (Present) Perfect

Tamas Ferencz Mar 31, 2018 (18:19)

+Robert Reynolds ah. Wasn't familiar with that variant.
Thank you!

Robert Reynolds Mar 31, 2018 (18:23)

+Tamas Ferencz I find it helpful for distinguishing between perfect and perfective and to more readily understand its role: looking at the past from a present perspective. It also nicely integrates past retrospective, aka pluperfect: looking at the past from a past perspective.

Robert Reynolds Apr 02, 2018 (22:48)

Updated version posted (at the same URL). I put the previous table below the revised one for comparison. I also began sketching descriptions of the conjugation process below the tables. The page width is temporarily increased to accommodate overset tables that I will reformat at a subsequent stage.

Many thanks to all who have given feedback and insight. I will continue revising these forms and sharing further thoughts is as helpful as ever!

Robert Reynolds Apr 09, 2018 (17:02)

Updated version (new URL). I’ve moved several more complicated examples to a supplementary table (not present in this version) to better elicit patterns, which I’ve begun extracting. There are now CE versions of all forms to further illustrate patterns. I then rewrote (for half-strong and causative classes thusfar) the pattern descriptions.

Please share any insight into the specific forms (CE or Q), patterns, table/description split, choice of examples, arta.

I hope that this document in various forms can eventually become a useful and helpful resource for quentaroli. - Neo-Quenya Verb Conjugation Table 2018-04-09.pdf

Tamas Ferencz Apr 09, 2018 (17:10)

I will certainly peruse it in the coming days. Thanks for sharing, Robert!