G+ LoME Archive
Post ZeJB4tjRh4k
James Coish, Discussion, Paul Strack, Andre Polykanine, Tamas Ferencz

James Coish Sep 25, 2018 (17:58)

I'm not too well versed in what some "early" nouns cases mean. For instance, EQ/MQ comitative case, kiryaiko. Does this mean "with a ship"? This is more for my understanding of languages in general, since English doesn't have declinations in nouns.

Paul Strack Sep 25, 2018 (20:39)

Tolkien didn't provide glosses for the comitative case, so the only thing we have to go on is the general linguistic definition of the term. The gloss “with a ship, in the company of a ship” would be my guess as well.

Paul Strack Sep 25, 2018 (20:39)

It's probably analogous to the comitative in Finnish: en.wikipedia.org - Comitative case - Wikipedia

Tamas Ferencz Sep 26, 2018 (09:56)

Yes: with, but not by. There is accompaniment, but no agency involved.

James Coish Sep 26, 2018 (15:29)

So it's sort of a "branch" of instrumental? And it would be modernised in Quenya to as and a noun?

Tamas Ferencz Sep 26, 2018 (15:38)

+James Coish I am not sure about calling it a "branch", but for sure in some languages there is an overlap. And yes, in late Quenya I would express it with as _ or _ó prepositions.

Andre Polykanine Oct 01, 2018 (00:04)

Speaking about mysterious cases: what is the latest understanding of the -s case (ciryas)?

James Coish Oct 01, 2018 (00:05)

In later Quenya it is a short locative.

Tamas Ferencz Oct 01, 2018 (01:34)

+Andre Polykanine Tolkien somewhere used it to express temporal "locative" so that's how I use it (sorry, can't give you the exact reference right now)

Tamas Ferencz Oct 01, 2018 (12:24)

It's in PE22:121, aldaryas and menelyas