Post ZzcDZ4L96n8

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Sep 20, 2015 (16:07)

This news item seems pretty relevant for this community.
Middle-earth News – Enter our Tolkien Language Haiku Contest!
Middle-earth News is very proud and excited to announce our first ever Tolkien Language Haiku Contest! This is a truly special way to celebrate the life and work of J. R. R. Tolkien, whose love of language was a driving force behind the creation of his legendarium. Middle-earth News is thrilled ...

Fiona Jallings Sep 21, 2015 (05:03)

I'm one of the judges!

Ekin Gören Sep 21, 2015 (09:37)

I posted something quickly, I'm unsure of some parts of it.

Александр Запрягаев Sep 21, 2015 (13:53)

+Fiona Jallings I can think of something in Telerin…

Fiona Jallings Sep 22, 2015 (03:49)

Beware, I minored in Japanese and I know how real Japanese Haiku are composed!

Ekin Gören Sep 22, 2015 (10:57)

+Fiona Jallings What do you think of the one I posted?

Александр Запрягаев Sep 25, 2015 (16:00)

+Fiona Jallings I submitted mine! What do you think?

Fiona Jallings Sep 30, 2015 (03:39)

I can't tell you yet ;)

Ekin Gören Oct 05, 2015 (01:25)

+Fiona Jallings It's 2am here! 5th of October has arrived. I don't know anything about Neo-Khuzdul but seeing all the mistakes in (the languages that we actually know a few of things about) Quenya/Sindarin poems, I'm thinking, I may be the winner after all. Or Alex, if the new rules of PE22 are not violating the contest's rules. +Александр Запрягаев

Александр Запрягаев Oct 05, 2015 (10:09)

+Ekin Gören Hey, there are NO new rules at all in my piece! The only new addition is the word ulo, 'rain'; imagine rossë at its place if you wish.

Ekin Gören Oct 05, 2015 (10:49)

+Александр Запрягаев Ah I see. I assumed there are a lot more new stuff, when you said "heavily boosted by PE22".

Александр Запрягаев Oct 05, 2015 (20:08)

+Ekin Gören Oh… +Fiona Jallings I'm flattered…

Fiona Jallings Oct 06, 2015 (04:17)

Well done guys! Yeah, Ekin, a lot of the poems were disqualified for being unreadable, which was usually because they used Sindarin words with English grammar. I like to call such translations "Sindarish". But, there were also a lot of good poems with mostly correct grammar (at least understandable grammar). In fact there was a tie for first place, and we had a discussion over which poem was just a little bit better. That's why there was the honorable mention in the article.

Ekin Gören Oct 06, 2015 (04:40)

+Fiona Jallings I see. I like Sindarish! :D So now, nothing is keeping you to tell me what you think about the one I wrote! I wonder if arnoded and neithain are accepted. And if it fits the haiku concept as a whole.

Fiona Jallings Oct 06, 2015 (05:25)

Let's see, my notes say - yes, they're unconventional, but acceptable. You lost points for using "nínia-" (to weep) for "to be shed". I think that "eilia-/elia-" (to rain/pour) would have been a better choice. As you have it, the unnumbered tears are the ones who will willingly weep. The last line read as "a curse for the wronged ones", which made the English version inaccurate. The emotion that you were trying to achieve does fit into a haiku very well - haiku work best when you focus on only one thing. In Japanese, it'd often be describing a scene in nature that demonstrates the impermanence of the world, a very important part of Buddhist philosophy. You were focusing on grief caused by war. But, I could tell you were struggling a bit with the syllable restrictions, especially with the last line, which was unconnected and ill-fitting the first two lines of the poem. That was something that a lot of people struggled with - haiku are very different from our European-traditional poetry. So, the last line felt tacked-on to fill the word-count. It works best if the entire haiku is one sentence.

On a side note, it's actually easier to compose haiku in Quenya, because Quenya phonology and grammar is more like Japanese.

Александр Запрягаев Oct 06, 2015 (09:37)

+Fiona Jallings Well, haiku are quite popular in Russia, and I've read enough Bashō to get the general idea of how they are made! I'm unable to formulate the precise rules, but just followed the emotional track of those I read, trying to parallel the state of nature with my inner mind (curiously enough, written under a sunny sky and light breeze :D ) and connecting them in a paradoxical way.
And, of course, the +#PE22 revelation made me unable to resist and add something with itë, someting with KUB and something with ulo!

Fiona Jallings Oct 06, 2015 (10:12)

You did a really good job focusing on one emotion. I think everyone at some point in their lives has felt that way. That's what put it above a lot of the other poems, who just described random pretty scenes in nature, not trying to connect them to any feelings or philosophies.

I had to read a lot of Bashou's poetry for my Japanese classes, mostly for the Japanese religion and philosophy class I took. If you really want to understand Bashou, you need to study the Japanese versions of Buddhism and the time period. Bashou believed that the world was declining, falling into chaos and ruin, as did many philosophers of his time. Thus, a heavy emphasis on "nothing lasts forever."

Ekin Gören Oct 06, 2015 (11:11)

+Fiona Jallings It was made in just five minutes or so (if we do not count a little research on haiku)! :D After I posted, I thought I should have used edlen instead of neithan. Too late! And while I was writing, I translated nínia- as "to shed" because I see little difference between "shedding&weeping tears".

The last line (actually all of them) was a Silmarillion reference to the Prophecy of the North. While the Noldor were in Araman and (possibly) Mandos himself prophesized their doom, or cursed them using these words.

Fiona Jallings Oct 06, 2015 (22:36)

I think that nínia- would have worked if you'd used the passive-conjugation instead of the future tense. "Unnumbered tears, you are wept now." instead of "Unnumbered tears, you will weep now." The later sounds like the tears are doing the action, instead of the action happening to them.