G+ LoME Archive
Oct 13, 2016 (12:39)
Sindarinists: what do you make of the (plural) forms
paired with the "usual" 1st sg
on p167 of PE22? Ephemeral variants?
Oct 13, 2016 (12:52)
forms fitting the great revamp of
is obviously paired with
due to its length stopped by a following cluster; I reconstruct it as * kw, with the second-person marker paired with first plural inclusive for emphasis and/or phonetic reasons (cf. Q.
from N+K+W). The whole system could be fitted like that:
Oct 13, 2016 (14:07)
hmmm. "second person marker paired with first plural inclusive'?
Oct 13, 2016 (15:45)
Oct 13, 2016 (15:59)
seems to be the 1st p. pl. verbal suffix, while
might be either the inclusive form (if
represents the exclusive) or the 1st p. dual ending. (Note that the final
) but not in
.) It is a question, however, whether "classical" sindarin kept duality and/or clusivity or these had been lost.
Anyway, considering the uncertainty in the meaning of these suffixes, I, for my part, continue to adhere to the usage of
Oct 13, 2016 (16:17)
Oct 13, 2016 (16:24)
"CE: *lindâ-me -> *linna-ve -> *linna-v -> S: **linnaf"
I think that Tolkien changed his mind on these suffixes, perhaps with
the great revamp of omentielvo
as Alexander puts it. Clearly, we see the (old)
suffix as (new)
[v] in PE22. The two of us have been using these for a year now.
Oct 13, 2016 (16:43)
And then we see
in Ae Adar Nín and
in Q&E. :)
Oct 13, 2016 (17:19)
Indeed, and there are many other examples with
postdate all, as we see them in LVS, 1969.
Oct 13, 2016 (17:45)
1969? Ok, I remembered that it's from around 1950.
Oct 13, 2016 (21:20)
I have adopted -(o)f and -b, because I can see the history behind them. I also use -nc for "you and I".
The suffixes that come from double consonants, -b from -kwe, -nc from -nki made the long A lose its length, which is why we have Athab versus Athof, Athon, Athol.
The earlier suffix, -m, assumed a history of -mme, which Tolkien scraped later on, deciding that the duplicated consonant was a Quenya-only innovation for the dual plural. That would mean that the ancient suffix was -me, which makes it -(o)f in Sindarin, and it is confirmed in PE22, so I use the later system. Source: VT49/51