Post cXaS5ZaEz7f

Tamas Ferencz Nov 10, 2016 (16:22)


So here's the vocabulary of the topic The Place Where I Live. Nota bene I have only listed the words that are topical to the discussion in question: i.e. words related to geography, weather, seasons.


har- v. “dwell, abide, reside (permamnently)”
osto n. “town”
*orrosta n. “eastern land, eastern region” from the loc. Orrostar in Númenor
Ingilnóre loc. “England”
*talmata- v. “found, base, lay the foundations of”
oi oia- v. “live, spend one’s days”
ham- v. “sit (also of buildings, towns, houses, low hills)”
sire síre n. “river”
ráva n. “riverbank”
ampano n. “building”
orróna adj. “eastern”
lára adj. “flat, open”
oron n. “mountain”
ambo n. “hill”
yonde n. “region”
*nindatalma n. “wetwang, marsh, fen”
ear n. “sea”
tolle n. “island”
*vilwis(te) n. “weather"
áre n. “sunlight, daytime”
kelya- v. “it rains”
hríve n. “winter”
lasselanta n. “autumn, fall”

Andre Polykanine Nov 10, 2016 (20:10)

+Tamas Ferencz As always, I have tons of questions since I don't have access to manuscripts, so please bear with me.
orróna adj. “eastern
In his wordlist, Helge has:
hróna adj. “eastern” (PE17:18), apparently a variant of róna, q.v. (itself not clearly glossed).
Should that be corrected to orróna? And is "east" still (h)rómen?
har- v. “dwell, abide, reside (permamnently)
Not mar-? (sinome maruvan...)
oi- v. “live, spend one’s days
Is it something to do with oire, oiale?
sire n. “river
Not síre?
tolle n. “island
Is there any difference between tol (i.e. Tol Eressea) and tolle?
kelya- v. “it rains
Yes! Rain is the word I've been desperately searching for. We have several words (like miste, for example). What do you suggest for "rain" as a noun?
Thank you very much!

Tamas Ferencz Nov 10, 2016 (23:20)

+Andre Polykanine​​ in his essay Quenya Verbal System in PE22 on page 125-126 Tolkien lists a number of verbs Quenya speakers used when talking about people living somewhere or things being situated somewhere. I used some of them in my text: kim-, oia- (and not oi-, it was an error of mine), har-, thar-. In this text Tolkien refers to mar- as "old verb... used in formal or archaic language". Of course this one text does not invalidate the use of mar-, which I think still can be used to mean "dwell, be settled" ; but it gives a most welcome set of possible variants to express different shades of meaning. When I will not be typing on my phone but sit properly in front of the computer I'll be happy to type in the full list.
Orróna appears in the same place as (h)róna, they seem to be variants. Again, I don't think we should restrict ourselves to one form where we have more to choose from. Variety is good.
Sire was a mistake for síre; thanks for catching it.

Tamas Ferencz Nov 10, 2016 (23:25)

Tolle is the same as tol. Kelya: there's no noun given but I guess we could use kelie.

Tamas Ferencz Nov 11, 2016 (09:42)

as promised, here's the list of verbs that can be used to express that someone or something "is" somewhere:
kim- "light on, find, come by" (as in 'Prague can be found in Czech Republic)

oia- "live = pass one's days"; defective verb without an aorist; oia is the imperfect, oiane is the past imperfect, oine is the past/perfect

koita- "live, have life" used for a perminent or natural habitat as in "fish live in water"

har- "dwell, abide, reside (permanently)"

ham- "sit" often used of cities, towns, houses, low hills, buildings (except high towers)

ser- "rest, repose - stay, tarry, stop, be for a while" as in "the Queen is currently in Sandringham"

thar- "stand" (tar- in PE17 is probably the same verb) used in reference to mountains, high hills, towers etc.

lat- "be extended, stretch, be situated (of an area)" of lands, regions, areas

Andre Polykanine Nov 11, 2016 (13:26)

Thanks a lot +Tamas Ferencz, will definitely write those down!