Post eN2RprN3KyP

Tamas Ferencz Oct 29, 2015 (17:03)

Random LotR paragraph from the beginning of the chapter Treebeard. Please feel free to comment on any of the neologisms or syntax.

Meanwhile the hobbits went with as much speed as the dark and tangled forest allowed, following the line of the running stream, westward and up towards the slopes of the mountains, deeper and deeper into Fangorn. Slowly their fear of the Orcs died away, and their pace slackened. A queer stifling feeling came over them, as if the air were too thin or too scanty for breathing.
At last Merry halted. 'We can't go on like this,' he panted. 'I want some air.'
'Let's have a drink at any rate,' said Pippin. 'I'm parched.' He clambered on to a great tree-root that wound down into the stream, and stooping drew up some water in his cupped hands. It was clear and cold, and he took many draughts. Merry followed him.

*Imlume i Periandi méner *talka lintiénen ya i morna yo rembina taure láve, hilyaner i kelulya sirille Númenna ar amba i orontion ambonennar, annúra ta annúra Fangornenna. Þossenta Urcollor lenkave sintane, ar lintienta lehtane. Alasenya, *quostala *felme unduláve te, ké ve i vilya né lange *linna hya *latiuka súyen.
Yallume Kali pustane. ‘La eke men etelelya sille,’ *heswestanes. ‘Merin vilya.’
‘*Aninga na yulimme ma,’ Razanur quente. ‘Parka ean. Fauka nán.’ *Ambarente alta ornesundonna ya hlinke undu i sirillanna, ta kumbala kuvula kalpane nótima nén kambayasse. Nésse poika yo ringa, ar sunkes limbe yuldali. Kali hilyanes.

*imlume: adv. 'at the same time, meanwhile'
*talka: conj. 'that big/much, as big/much' based om malka 'how great?' PE22:124
*quosta-: v. 'choke, drown, suffocate' from EQ qosta-
*linna: adj. 'thin, meagre, slim' SLIN; formed to differentiate from the more positive attested linda 'fine, delicate'; cf. N thlein
*heswesta-: v. 'puff away, pant' freq. of hwesta-
*aninga: adj. 'foremost, first' here used in the sense of 'at least, at the very first' from inga 'first, foremost' NB that the precursor of the root meant 'tiny, small'
*ambaret-: v. 'climb up' retroformation from retto 'climber' PE17:182

It is amazing how even these short passages from LotR can pose so many challenges and interesting questions about syntax and vocabulary.

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Oct 30, 2015 (16:27)

Do we know from somewhere that Quenya would allow –ml– ? (Is there other evidence besides imlë ?)

Using the locative case lúmessë (VT43:34) might perhaps clarify the idea better than the nominative-looking essive (whereas e.g. Russian would use the instrumental...). I could also see as a basis of translation the Finnish adverb saman+aikaisesti where the latter part is the regular adverb formation from an –inen (–ise–) adjective (< aika "time").

Tamas Ferencz Oct 30, 2015 (17:41)

+ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ I don't know of any other attestation of ml.
However, I find lúmesse too general (I could see it to mean 'on time', too, for example). Perhaps with a fuller expression, imya lúmesse.
There are other essive time-related adverbs, yallume, illume etc. In fact, talume might even fit the bill for 'meanwhile', not that I come to think of it.

Björn Fromén Nov 02, 2015 (00:00)

In LOTR-style Q, where an agglutinated pronoun is the subject, not the object of its verb, the literal meaning of parka ean must be 'dry (or naked) I exist', not 'dry[ness] there is to me' as in QVS (PE 22:122). So maybe rather fauca nánye for 'I'm parched'?    

Tamas Ferencz Nov 02, 2015 (08:51)

+Björn Fromén
good catch, thank you - indeed that is an object ending.
However, parka as such remains valid, doesn't it? Besides fauca.

Björn Fromén Nov 02, 2015 (14:00)

I suppose it does, but it's more needed for the sense 'naked' (PE 17:86). So for 'parched', 'thirsty' I'd prefer fauca or soica .

Tamas Ferencz Nov 02, 2015 (14:07)

Makes sense. Thanks, again. Corrected.