Post fv7ybPk7sVB

Tamas Ferencz Dec 19, 2017 (11:35)

men- 'go, proceed'+ -ma 'implement' > *memma 'vehicle'?

Paul Strack Dec 20, 2017 (00:53)

Change of nm > nw is more frequent than assimilation of nm > mm, so maybe menwa. But this sounds plausible to me.

Tamas Ferencz Dec 20, 2017 (10:14)

+Paul Strack menwa could equally work

Tamas Ferencz Dec 20, 2017 (10:17)

And then: *immenwa/immemma "automobile"? ☺️

Ицхак Пензев Dec 20, 2017 (12:06)

(1) PE19:96 says that nm > nw occurs usually when the stem ended in n + m suffix, so this is our case.
(2) A couple of years ago somebody suggested a word immolendo for an automobile (it might be you, Tamas). I feel ok with it.

Tamas Ferencz Dec 20, 2017 (17:27)

+Ицхак Пензев I think it was me, yes. Not sure about the lendo component, though.

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Dec 20, 2017 (20:31)

Let one also not forget the perfectly usable attested items at or the verbal stem lev- "to move" (intr.). I also wonder what JRRT's mind on the root KEL became after he thought up celvar..

By the way, the Finnish counterpart that's actually being used is not *kuljin (kulkime-) or even *kuljetin (kuljettime-), but kulku+peli, kulku+neuvo, ajo+neuvo — whereas in standard Estonian one does find the 'vehiculum'-type formation .

Björn Fromén Dec 21, 2017 (00:14)

+Tamas Ferencz *immemma 'selfie'? :-)

Tamas Ferencz Dec 21, 2017 (00:25)

+Björn Fromén indeed.

Ицхак Пензев Dec 21, 2017 (05:17)

In my opinion, raxa works okay for ‘car'. Or, at least, not worse than other variants. I didn't know this word earlier.
P.S. And lunca for ‘truck’/‘lorry’.

Tamas Ferencz Dec 21, 2017 (10:35)

+Ицхак Пензев Bjorn has been using raxa for "sleigh, sled" as the root implies dragging, pulling.

Tamas Ferencz Dec 21, 2017 (11:20)

lunca could also work for "train"

Ицхак Пензев Dec 21, 2017 (12:01)

+Tamas Ferencz in Elfling #27189 you suggested tungwa for 'train'. It makes more sense than Helge's tungwë for 'tax'.
Is not raxa too close to raxë 'danger'? It may be confusing. In my attempts of "conversational Quenya" two years ago I tried norollë, but I don't like it as a very early word.

Tamas Ferencz Dec 21, 2017 (13:09)

+Ицхак Пензев well those are all variations on the same theme, aren't they: a root meaning 'pull, drag, draw', and a noun derived from it. So we can use one for one meaning, the other for another one...
Norolle is perfectly fine I think because the verb nor- is well attested in later periods.
And I am not really bothered by raxa being close to raxe...

Ицхак Пензев Dec 21, 2017 (15:15)

+Tamas Ferencz I agree with you 100%. As for lunca, I thought it was somehow connected to lunga 'heavy'. Now I read an entry in Eldamo and saw I was mistaken.

Björn Fromén Dec 21, 2017 (23:58)

I based my use of raxa for 'sleigh' on the gloss "a drag" in PE 17:28. Per OED "drag" can mean, i.a., "an overland conveyance without wheels; a rough kind of sledge".

norolle is only known from GL, where nor- is associated with rolling and wheels. There is no trace of that sense in late sources.

Ицхак Пензев Dec 22, 2017 (12:10)

+Björn Fromén I feel frustrated in my search of consensus.