Post hSTGbWX8ix9

Björn Fromén Dec 25, 2012 (15:13)

A few more verses for the season to be jolly:

Marda netyuvar ercassi.
Asta sina tuce alassi.
Coluvalme larma merya;
linwi yárie a lerya!

Ela turunáro* ruine!
Tyala tanta, a nyellor míne!
Áni hilya liltienna,
yá pa míri nyarin lenna!

Auta linta i loa yára.
Tule i vinya: nai sa mára!
Aqua alassenen líralme;
súre, vaile la tíralme.

   *turu-nár 'the yule-log fire'

Tamas Ferencz Dec 25, 2012 (21:29)

Nas maara nin!

Tamas Ferencz Dec 25, 2012 (21:40)

I don't recognize linwi, can you explain? My ignorance probably. Cheers

Björn Fromén Dec 25, 2012 (23:07)

linwe 'short lay, ballad', isolated from Eärendillinwë 'The Short Lay of Eärendel' (Treason of Isengard, pp.102--103)

Tamas Ferencz Dec 25, 2012 (23:39)

Thank you!

Ицхак Пензев Dec 26, 2012 (10:00)

Írima lirit. Anantë i tengwesta nómelissë raica ná, sámanyassë.

Lúthien Merilin Dec 26, 2012 (11:10)

Too bad I don't know any Quenya: do you have an English translation?

Björn Fromén Dec 27, 2012 (02:07)

+Lúthien Merilin
It's a translation of the Yuletide carol "Deck the hall".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deck_the_Halls

Björn Fromén Dec 27, 2012 (02:18)

+Ицхак Пензев
 Interesting, in which places? Could you be a little more specific? 

Ицхак Пензев Dec 27, 2012 (15:19)

+Björn Fromén I was understood! Wow!
I was trying to compose the answer in Q., but I'm not yet fluent in it. So let it be English for now, for sake of time.
I couldn't figure out the subject of the first sentence. "Ercassi" are an instrument, not the topic. If it is "marda", then we'd need passive.
Next, I failed to understand míne. Lit.: "Play harp, oh singers x". If "join" (from minë - " one"), then we would need at least Dative: "ar nyelloin mína".
But all this is highly subjective. And I'm only a student of this noble tongue. And your translation is really a great job.

Tamas Ferencz Dec 27, 2012 (15:25)

+Ицхак Пензев actually I think ercassi can be the subject, if one understands the verb netya- could mean "adorn" as in e.g. "Golden buttons adorned his garment".

Ицхак Пензев Dec 27, 2012 (17:01)

+Tamas Ferencz I think you are right about ercassi. I'm still a bit dubious about netya- understood as this. Though, Neo-Quenya is 90% an extrapolation. Why not, then.

Tamas Ferencz Dec 27, 2012 (17:41)

" If "join" (from minë - " one"), then we would need at least Dative: "ar nyelloin mína"."

In Sindarin we have aderthad and from that *ertha- "unite"; so a NeoQuenya cognate could be *erta-; it is also a better fit, as MIN is rather associated with 'first (in a series)', while ER is 'one, sole'.

Björn Fromén Dec 27, 2012 (23:08)

+Ицхак Пензев
Thank you for the clarification. As Tamas explained, ercassi is the intended subject of the verb netyuvar. Of course, since netya- is only attested out of context, we can't be sure how it would behave within a sentence. Lacking this information I have assumed that it can be constructed as the English 'adorn'.
míne is the plural of the adjective mína 'desiring to start, eager to go'. nyellor míne thus means 'singers eager to start [sc. singing]', admittedly a very free rendering of 'join the chorus', made to preserve meter and rhyme.

Tamas Ferencz Dec 28, 2012 (09:27)

Another NeoQuenya word for 'join' I sometimes use is *yahta-, from the root YAT- in Etym.

Björn Fromén Dec 28, 2012 (18:23)

Wouldn't *yahta- rather derive from YAK- (meaning not given but probably more or less the same)? Tolkien later on emended YAT- to YAN- (VT 49:46).

Tamas Ferencz Dec 28, 2012 (20:19)

Of course the root is YAK-, I confused it with its derivative yat 'neck'.