Post huUTPA1Ajzp

Tamas Ferencz Oct 24, 2013 (12:12)

How would you say simple in Quenya (or Sindarin)? Go literal from simplex and coin *erastea "of a single part"?

Lőrinczi Gábor Oct 27, 2013 (12:38)

Well, I would rather focus on the different shades of meaning of this word and use the prefix ú- (cf. úlann, úvelui, etc.) as a Joker in Sindarin. :)

simple = unusual, not special

*úvinai, *ú-orchal

simple = not hard to do

*údhir, *úranc = athgar

simple = not complicate


Roman Rausch Oct 27, 2013 (13:01)

In the sense 'ordinary, not special' one may consider Q. *haimea; in the sense 'easy' one gets Q. *askare, *askárima; in the sense 'basic, not derived or put together' one may consider Q. essea '?primary' or setya, setta 'first, ?primary' (a deleted word, but still).

Björn Fromén Oct 27, 2013 (16:31)

As the primary meaning of asta is 'division', 'one of several equal parts', perhaps *alastea (or *úastea) could be used for 'simple' = 'without division', 'undivided', 'not compound'.

Tamas Ferencz Oct 27, 2013 (16:51)

Those are all excellent suggestions, thank you.

(Now on to the next question: how would you say 'suggest, propose'? :))

Lőrinczi Gábor Oct 27, 2013 (17:47)

That's simple! :)

S gor-, Q or- (√ӠOR)

Björn Fromén Oct 28, 2013 (01:43)

How about tyasta- 'put to the test' (QL)?

Tamas Ferencz Oct 28, 2013 (09:50)

Eteminya! Thanks, all.

Roman Rausch Oct 28, 2013 (11:01)

+Björn Fromén As far as Greco-Roman metaphors go, 'dividing' is rather 'analyzing': 'science' is related to scindō 'cut, divide', 'analysis' is from lyō 'release, unfasten'.
'Complex' is literally 'weaved together'; in Russian сложный is 'put together', but I'm not sure it's not a calque.

Tamas Ferencz Oct 28, 2013 (11:42)

In Hungarian 'simple' is egyszerű, which is literally 'like one', where egy is 'one' and -szerű is a suffix more or less corresponding to the Qenya case ending -ndon.

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Nov 01, 2013 (19:35)

For "suggest", maybe *et+orta-[1] or something similar (vs. e.g. /quetë rá/ +Dat).

Many real-world languages use a prefixed verb, even though the "European frequenter" in Italian /proporre/ & Russian /пред|лагать/ is certainly contrasted by Classical Latin /admoneo/ and /in-, sub-icio/.

The etymology of Finnish /ehdottaa/ is unclear.

[1] compare the partly similar Icelandic phrase /stinga upp á/ (recalled as an afterthought)

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Nov 02, 2013 (21:23)

If */ompata-/ (or other correctly formed caus/tr verb from OPO) can represent English "promote, advance", then that would make a useful half-synonym.

Tamas Ferencz Nov 03, 2013 (20:29)

Another word that is difficult to pin down is 'counsel, advice, bid'. Looking through the Gnomish and Qenya Lexicons couldn't see any immediate solutions.

Björn Fromén Nov 04, 2013 (14:25)

According to "Notes on Óre" (VT 41) Q or-, S gor- "could be used of the influence of one person upon another by visible or audible means (words or signs) -- in which case 'counsel' was nearest to its sense". No example is given, but presumably it takes this meaning when construed with a personal subject: *meldonyar orir nin caritas 'my friends counsel me to do it' (contrast the impersonal ore nin caritas 'I feel an urge to do it').

Tamas Ferencz Nov 05, 2013 (17:18)

I like or- more and more-it's taking on biblical proportions much alike OE raedan or bidan.