Just working on a translation for someone into both Quenya and Sindarin of the following sentence:
"If you want to be hard (i.e. "steadfast, enduring"), you always have to be hard"
While Quenya is not too much of a problem (got Que merityë nata voronwa, mauya tyë nata voronwa illumë) Sindarin does give me some headaches, and that mainly is regarding some forms of the copula verb +#na- "to be".
The scaffold of my translation looks like this:
Ae anírag no? (infinitive) vronadui, boe achen nad (gerund) vronadui an uireb.
While by applying the regular rules for A-verbs you do get "valid" words, no and nad, I'm just a tad sceptical whether these work out, mainly as I could not find any place where the forms of this usually irregular verb have been already guessed (of all the verb conjugation tables I found it was omitted entirely), as well as nad (gerund of na- could be confused with nad ("thing").
Also does the rule that direct objects are lenited also affect adjectives in copula sentences? (bronadui --> vronadui)
Thanks for any clues on this one!
Tamas Ferencz Jun 29, 2016 (11:45)
mauya as a modal verb governs a dative in my opinion (mauya tyen)
Lőrinczi Gábor Jun 29, 2016 (12:06)
Btw, I don't think that bronadui in your sentence should be lenited.
Ekin Gören Jun 29, 2016 (13:11)
Pí anírol vronadui olad, illû bórol chim nad.
"If you want to become enduring, you always need to be enduring."
Severin Zahler Jun 29, 2016 (13:14)
I actually did search for some indications whether mauya- requests a certain case, did not find something for certain, and then just used Renk's elaborations on the passive in Quenya (translating "you are compelled"). Renk basically describes this rendition of the passive as a translation of literal "*it* compels you" where the it is implied and thus the "you" is in accusative and not dative. But I definitely considered a construction similar to known Q. óla tyen.
+Lőrinczi Gábor Wow thats a fancy way to rephrase this sentence :O But to my taste its a bit too far away from the original wording, and not preferrable if there's a more or less safe way to do it otherwise :S
Severin Zahler Jun 29, 2016 (13:18)
What's that ola- you're speaking off? Haven't heard of that word as of yet starts researching
Ekin Gören Jun 29, 2016 (13:26)
Severin Zahler Jun 29, 2016 (13:33)
Could have guessed that ola- is from almighty PE22 :D Did read it twice and am chipping in more and more bits from it into my translations, but am still far off knowing about all of them^^
Lőrinczi Gábor Jun 29, 2016 (17:41)
Tamas Ferencz Jun 29, 2016 (18:02)
Andre Polykanine Jun 29, 2016 (20:23)
Andre Polykanine Jun 29, 2016 (20:23)
Tamas Ferencz Jun 29, 2016 (22:22)
Severin Zahler Jun 30, 2016 (11:10)
Q.: Qui merityë na voronwa, mauya tyë na voronwa illumë.
S.: Cí nidhig bronadui nad, boe achen illû bronadui nad.
Regarding the word for "if" in Sindarin: Both the variants cí and ae are neologisms created by David Salo for the LotR and Hobbit movies, going back to Q. cé resp. ai. The qui I am using comes from LVS11 (PE22/158:1605), previously I used quë << qe from QVS (PE22/120:1810). LVS11 is the newer source (1969) over QVS (1948-1950), hence my choice. To choose between ae and cí for Sindarin I do refer to QVS though which has both Q. ai and qe while qe is for "if" and ai is for "maybe, supposing" which definitely fits less well.
Now LVS11 has both qui "if" and cé "may be", and David Salo's NS. cí is said to be derived from cé rather than qui, but given that PE22 was not released when this derivation was created I think I can safely reconnect cí to qui rather than cé...
Again thx for sharing your thoughts!
Ekin Gören Jun 30, 2016 (11:57)
Quenya: KW>qu | quetta / qui
Sindarin: KW>p | peth / pí