Post j5Q5RLSHLU9

Robert Reynolds Jan 07, 2017 (01:55)

Translation inquiry:
"Since the Elves were not going (did not intend, were not willing) to follow him, he strived against them by force." (thus not unreal)

An Eldar...
candidate 1: vá hilyuvaner se (weak past future)
candidate 2: vá hilyumner se (strong past future)
candidate 3: vá teller hilyatas (using tel- "to intend" in pa.t.)
candidate 4: lá teller hilyatas (#3 but with "factual" negation)
(several other candidates...)
... rinces tenna sahtienen.

I just received PE22 and have been trying to understand its contents and place them in context with what I've learned by other sources. There's a lot in there!

Tamas Ferencz Jan 07, 2017 (12:09)


#3 looks too much - already carries the meaning of intent (or rather the lack of it); "they were unwilling to intend to" is awkward to my ears
#4 looks grammatically fine, but does not convey the unwillingness (again, to me)
So for me the choice is between #1 and #2. I'd probably choose #1 (BTW I think that would be hilyuváner and sahtiénen).

Robert Reynolds Jan 07, 2017 (13:46)

+Tamas FerenczMára ná.

Robert Reynolds Jan 07, 2017 (14:08)

+Tamas Ferencz Regarding hilyuváner, is my interpretation accurate that PE22 on page 105 gives hilyúvaner as a later usual accent (using karuváne > karúvane as the primary example), citing Quenya rhythmic predilections favouring "dactylic words or endings"? I appreciate your points of view.

Andre Polykanine Jan 07, 2017 (14:17)

Don't know about PE #22, but as far as I know, Quenya strongly tends to avoid stresses on future-tense "u" in -uva ending and on "i" in nouns like sahtie, mornie, coivie.

Robert Reynolds Jan 07, 2017 (14:20)

+Andre Polykanine Thanks: that's helpful. I'm only starting to see the big picture in these matters. So much interconnection: it's beautiful!

Tamas Ferencz Jan 07, 2017 (14:34)

+Robert Reynolds indeed there is karúvane; yet examples like ninquitáne, lintiénen, tuluváse etc. suggest to me that this pattern was more usual. Which does not rule out *hilyúvaner.