Can someone help me on the word(s) olor and olos?
These appear in two etymological notes published in Unfinished Tales (copied and pasted below) discussing the High-elven name of Gandalf. Olor is given as Elven dream, olos as fantasy. But +Tom Hillman has noted that in some languages (e.g. Latin) s can change to r, and suggests that perhaps these are not two words but two forms of a single word.
Your considered opinions would be most welcome and gratefully received.
Here are the (main part of the) notes:
Olor is a word often translated ‘dream’, but that does not refer to (most) human ‘dreams’, certainly not the dreams of sleep. To the Eldar it included the vivid contents of their memory, as of their imagination, it referred in fact to clear vision, in the mind, of things not physically present at the body’s situation. But not only to an idea, but to a full clothing of this in particular form and detail. (UT 512-3; emphases in original)
olo-s: vision, ‘phantasy’: Common Elvish name for ‘construction of the mind’ not actually (pre) existing in Eä apart from the construction, but by the Eldar capable of being by Art (Karme) made visible and sensible. (UT 513)
Paul Strack Feb 01, 2016 (05:49)
http://eldamo.org/content/words/word-1006198607.html
The history of this root is tied to LOS or GLOS, two roots Tolkien considered for "white":
http://eldamo.org/content/words/word-1664305583.html
Also related is LOT(H), the root for flower:
http://eldamo.org/content/words/word-3921937245.html
My personal preference is LOR for dream (G)LOS for white and LOTH for flower.
simon cook Feb 01, 2016 (05:57)
simon cook Feb 01, 2016 (06:01)
Paul Strack Feb 01, 2016 (06:20)
If we knew the true Sindarin name of that land we could resolve the issue, and Tolkien's vacillation on the two roots LOS vs LOR is reflected in the names he considered. In the Etymologies of the 1930s we see N. Lhuien, which points to the root LOS, since intervocalic s vanished in Sindarin, but in his notes on names in the Lord of the Rings from the 1950s he considered S. Lothlýrian and Lothlúrien, both of which point to the root LOR.
http://eldamo.org/content/words/word-478096257.html
http://eldamo.org/content/words/word-773877043.html
Александр Запрягаев Feb 01, 2016 (08:50)
Tamas Ferencz Feb 01, 2016 (14:26)
Александр Запрягаев Feb 01, 2016 (14:37)
Tamas Ferencz Feb 01, 2016 (14:48)
well we don't really know much about the sleeping needs and habits of the Elves, maybe the two things were inseparable for them.
Tamas Ferencz Feb 01, 2016 (14:48)
simon cook Feb 01, 2016 (15:09)
Remy Corbin Feb 01, 2016 (18:32)
simon cook Feb 01, 2016 (18:50)
Also, from the same secondary source:
Only Legolas still stepped as lightly as ever, his feet hardly seeming to press the grass, leaving no footprints as he passed; but in the waybread of the Elves he found all the sustenance that he needed, and he could sleep, if sleep it could be called by Men, resting his mind in the strange paths of elvish dreams, even as he walked open-eyed in the light of this world.
(TT 3.ii.429)
And
With that [Aragorn] fell asleep. Legolas already lay motionless, his fair hands folded upon his breast, his eyes unclosed, blending living night and deep dream, as is the way with Elves.
(TT 3.ii.442)
Remy Corbin Feb 01, 2016 (19:22)
It is plainly suggested that Elves do ‘sleep’, but not in our mode, having a different relation to what we call ‘dreaming’. Nothing very definite is said about it (a) because except at a length destructive of narrative it would be difficult to describe a different mode of consciousness, and (b) for reasons that you so rightly observe: something must be left not fully explained, and only suggested.
So I think that using the word sleep in reference to Elves may result form the fact that we don't have better one.
simon cook Feb 01, 2016 (19:23)
Tamas Ferencz Feb 01, 2016 (19:53)
Tamas Ferencz Feb 01, 2016 (20:02)
simon cook Mar 14, 2016 (18:12)