5hGXSojXBjY — G+ LoME Archive

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Mar 25, 2015 (09:46)

Some Sindarin neologism ideas and adaptations to go with Tolkien Reading Day. . . (Also because "waste not", and all that.)

— : —

* aif adj. same - ?IM (Q imya)

* beleitha- v. tr. to magnify - BEL-EK (Gn. belectha-) || vs. *daera(da)– (consider cýr, cýra-)

* berthian n. challenge vs. daring, audacity - BER

* býl n. (a single) service or favour - BEW (OS *beule, cp. S gaul)

* ceiria- v. tr. to cause, bring about - KYAR (cp. TYAL)

* cofra- ~ cofnada- v. tr. to empty - KUM

* (e)nedhren; enedhui adj. central, essential - E-NED

* enia- (pa 3 sg enias) v. intr. to be born, be generated, result - ONO (cp. ORO)

* enweria- v. to revere vs. to inspire awe - OS *anwaria-

* esgar (escar) n. weapon - SKAR (from OS *eskar- after esgal, or possibly containing EK, SKAR)

* gothiol; gothiadui adj. similar - WO, THÊ

* gwenwi n. past, Vergangenheit - WAN (OS *wanwiie per Arda Philology #1 p. 91)

* íphathred n. 'year-fullness', one of the possible synonyms for "Alter, age of person" - from íphant

* meru adj. valuable, worthy - MIR (OS *mirwa)

* nethan- (netheni-), ne–thanna/–thenia- v. to inspire, kindle inside - NE(D?), THAN (PE17:82)

* nuicha- (nuichia-?) v. tr. to notice, sense - OS *nuhia- < CE *nusja- < NUS

* ogod; och; uguig n. knee - Gn. octha, Qe. okka : cf. lebed = Gn. leptha &c. (the tentative *uguig is from a CE dual *ôkû, cf. lhewig)

* or(n)a-, amor(n)a- v. tr. to heat up - UR (cp. SKAR, THUR, SPAR), AM

* padol n. key - PAT (CE *patlâ); possible syn. *panu (<< *patmâ per Etym:400; CE *-mâ in N/S : e.g. Etym:390)

* rae; raethir; gelthir n. smile - RAY, STIR, GYEL

* rae(a)s; rachad (vs. rach-as/-os, -al/-ol) n. danger - ?RAK(H)/RAK(-AS) (VT44:9 compared against Q/S (N) word-derivation in Etym:362, 371, 390 & PE17:92)

* sab(a)- v. tr. to dig - SAP (probably already suggested)

* taugla- v. tr. to resist, withstand (against) - from adj. taug (PE17:115)

* tolcha-, godolcha- v. tr. to support, avail - TUL-UK (cp. JRRT's Tolchas, VT46:20)

Hjalmar Holm Mar 25, 2015 (11:07)

Some of these words are much-needed, and at a first quick glance I (with my limited knowledge) find several of them quite logical.

In the VQP already (which is no obstacle, synonyms is a good thing when you are doing poetry) are the following:
saba- "dig"
ragath "danger" (with rachal as a proposed alternative)

In another wordlist with reconstructed words, I found:
raeda-, "to smile".

I particularly like gothiol and gwenwi.

Tamas Ferencz Mar 25, 2015 (12:35)

TBH I find *ragath in VQP shaky (i.e. the reasoning behind it).

Hjalmar Holm Mar 25, 2015 (13:06)

+Tamas Ferencz Then i would be happy to have it substituted with a more solid one.

Paul Strack Mar 25, 2015 (15:21)

Very nice

Ekin Gören Mar 26, 2015 (01:45)

+Hjalmar Holm +Tamas Ferencz Even if they're unreliable, I find it pleasing that ragath and rachal are actually in something quite above my knowledge. When I proposed those words at Hjalmar's Hobbit translation post, I didn't know they were in VQP! I feel really happy now that I see my guesses were even close to "right". :)

Tamas Ferencz Mar 26, 2015 (08:29)

+Ekin Gören you got it backwards I think, they were entered into VQP based on your post (at least I think so - right, +Hjalmar Holm?)

Ekin Gören Mar 26, 2015 (08:55)

+Tamas Ferencz Oh forgive me, I somehow thought our VQP as Vinyar Tengwar for a moment. :D Well it's still good that my makings are remembered at least. :)

Edit: I just saw the entry on VQP Site, I wasn't the one who added it. Maybe Hjalmar did.

Hjalmar Holm Mar 26, 2015 (12:22)

+Tamas Ferencz +Ekin Gören Exactly, I found them to be the best alternative I hav for the moment, and I badly need a word for "danger", so I posted it in VQP after no better thoughts were presented. I will stick with ragath until people here find another word better, for example if more people than me like the words of Hidden friend above.

Tamas Ferencz Mar 26, 2015 (12:30)

+Hjalmar Holm Sami's deductions are usually sound and solid, I think you can trust his constructs

Hjalmar Holm Mar 26, 2015 (13:51)

To the point that I should adopt his wordlist above straight away? They are indeed useful and beautiful.

Hjalmar Holm Mar 26, 2015 (14:41)

I added the word rachas to the VQP to replace ragath. If anyone disagrees please fell free to edit.
+ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ I would like an adjective corresponding to rachas. Do you have ideas? I thought of ?racheb, but I'm not really sure.

Ekin Gören Mar 26, 2015 (19:24)

I for one, agree that rachas is a much better choice. Since it really gives the X sound and a better phonological fit for Sindarin. Mine was sounding a bit too soft. As for racheb, I'll leave it to our lambengolmor.

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Mar 26, 2015 (20:07)

+Hjalmar Holm As a possible S counterpart of Q raxalë, *rach-as might find ground in the pair Q aicalë = N aegas (there being also Q (lúme)quentalë = N (go)bennas).

It's a pitty we apparently don't know of same-root N/S counterparts for Q anqualë, meryalë, tumbalë (the most similar abstract nouns that aren't derived from a verb with -lë).

Hjalmar Holm Mar 26, 2015 (22:02)

Would you mean that and adjective, "dangerous" would be rach + an adjective ending, or rachas + an adjective ending, or simply rach without further suffix?
Looking at gobennas the corresponting adjective is gobennathren, which suggests the form rachathren, but I find that doubble-suffix solution un-aesthetical, and since this language, in large, is designed to be aesthetical, I don't believe I'm on the right path.

Ekin Gören Mar 27, 2015 (00:13)

+Hjalmar Holm I was going to propose rachathren for "dangerous" but you already had written racheb so I left it like that. But I can say a couple of things for rachathren. Don't think of it like rach+ath+ren, the ~~ath~~ part is not actualy the class plural suffix but the change of s to th sound. The -ren suffix forces it to become like that. So rachas + -ren equals rachathren.

And our Halvellon meant that -lë endings in Quenya seem to follow the same principle in Sindarin, using abstract suffixes. So in theory, any -lë endings in Quenya can be -as in Sindarin. Thus (Q) raxalë to (NS) rachas seems like a great reconstruction.

Hjalmar Holm Mar 27, 2015 (03:49)

Mmm. But the Q words I have looked at have the adjective counterpart as [word] and the noun as [word] + -lë. And I did not think of -ath in rachathren as some sort of class plural, but in the same way as you, but I still view -as as a suffix, thus rach + -as + -ren, voilá, two suffixes.

Tamas Ferencz Mar 27, 2015 (06:35)

+Ekin Gören "since it really gives the X sound" - I don't see how that is relevant as the x in the Quenya counterpart is simply k+s?

Ekin Gören Mar 27, 2015 (11:50)

+Tamas Ferencz IMHO raxë (raxalë) to rachas sounds perfect because it kept the original k+s sound. In short, it feels like we stood loyal to Tolkien's original work. :)

Tamas Ferencz Mar 27, 2015 (17:15)

+Ekin Gören my apologies. There indeed are cases of correspondence between Quenya ks and Sindarin check; e. g. axo and achad

Ekin Gören Mar 27, 2015 (19:59)

+Tamas Ferencz None necessary, you have putted it better than I did. A great example.

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Mar 29, 2015 (13:50)

+Hjalmar Holm For clarity, all the forms I've suggested in the opening message are nouns. Should one choose *rachas/rachos as the form to make an adjective from, I think the /s/ would indeed change to /th/ before –ren (whereas *rachal > *rachallen). But before –eb, –en, –ui the /s/ would change to /ss/, as in (g)lossen, glossui. If we knew the exact primitive root behind Q raxë, raxalë (those of S achas, iach, rach, rhach might help too!) then we could argue better about the can-and-can't-bes of a shorter stem. For all we know, Q raxë might even come from *RA3 (cp. Etym:370) whereby the Sindarin counterpart & stem would look like *rass-. The Sindarin stock might also come from a metathetic variant *RAS-AK of *RAK-AS (cp. MAS-AG), but there are already two attested words of the form rasg (Etym:383 & PE17:28) which would be the resulting noun.

As for the adjective, there's also an attested Gnomish word lethrin "slippery, perilous" (> Neo-Sindarin *(g)lethren? vs. e.g. talt intensified with, say, an- / íd- / dae- similar to the FotR movie dialogue translation : http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie_fotr.htm#dartho ).

Hjalmar Holm Mar 30, 2015 (12:56)

I'll add Halvellon's words to the VQP if no-one protests.