Post J1HGaQXPaNr

Hjalmar Holm Mar 19, 2015 (22:11)

Man nos perian?

Tamas Ferencz Mar 20, 2015 (09:39)


Hjalmar Holm Mar 20, 2015 (09:51)

As I feared, it is un-understandable. I want to translate the sentence "what is a hobbit?" and I find it hard for me.

Tamas Ferencz Mar 20, 2015 (10:06)

+Hjalmar Holm
that's no easy feet, I absolutely agree

Hjalmar Holm Mar 20, 2015 (11:33)

perian, man te? perhaps?

Tamas Ferencz Mar 20, 2015 (11:38)

+Hjalmar Holm
I like that

Ekin Gören Mar 20, 2015 (12:01)

I'm from Turkey and Turkish doesn't have "am-is-are" and its grammer is quite close to Sindarin's, from what I can gather.

There is something called "statement suffix" in Turkish, which is -dir. I'll try to explain it with an example...

without the suffix:
mavi gök / blue sky
with suffix:
Gök mavidir / sky is (in fact) blue

I share this because it can also be used in questions, like:

ne hobbit? / what hobbit?
with the statement suffix:
hobbit nedir? / what is (a) hobbit?

Hoping this may give us some ideas. :)

Hjalmar Holm Mar 20, 2015 (12:11)

+Ekin Gören Very interesting indeed. There is the grammatical difference between leniting a word and not leniting a word. But I have only a flimsy grip on that part of the grammar. I even don't know if perian and te in the sentence perian, man te is subject or object.

Ekin Gören Mar 21, 2015 (12:42)

Is there any way for us to implement this root?

Maybe we can use this for "statement suffix" I talked about. Like "Man ê *perian?" maybe.

*I'm not sure what kind of mutation P needs there.

Hjalmar Holm Mar 22, 2015 (15:35)

If I am allowed to guess, man berian, with lenition, would be like asking "which hobbit?", yielding answers like "Bilbo, not Lobelia or Otho", whereas man perian, without mutation, would be "what is a hobbit", but the distinction is quite vague and also does not work for several words, like adan.

To make ê work, it has to be distinguised from ed, but, for understanding purposes, it might be best if it didn't cause mutation at all, like if it were a postposition rather than a preposition, but postpositions are maybe not so sindarin...

Ekin Gören Mar 22, 2015 (18:42)

+Hjalmar Holm +Tamas Ferencz Look what I've found!

There is information on the indicative "en" in that link. Possibly connected to my earlier finding ê. The problem is, I use "en" as "of (the)" so what should we do now?

Hjalmar Holm Mar 22, 2015 (22:05)

I have no idea. I saw therer were many different ideas, but I can't make it out, and I can't read and understand the sentence. I am utterly confused.

Tamas Ferencz Mar 22, 2015 (23:14)

+Ekin Gören do nothing - be satisfied that at present there is no clear evidence whether Sindarin uses a copula at all, and if it does, what that would be precisely...

Hjalmar Holm Mar 23, 2015 (00:19)

It would make some sense with en as ~"that is". Il chem en i naugrim en ir ellath... "All the land that is [of] the dwarves [and] that is [of] ? all elves ..." but there are several ideas that would yield a coherent translation.

Александр Запрягаев Apr 16, 2015 (21:59)

+Hjalmar Holm +Tamas Ferencz I guess the correct form of such interrogations would heavily depend on how exactly we are supposed to interpret mana in the coimas phrase. Personally, I'd try with simple Man perian [na]? for 'What is a hobbit?' and went for a heavy extrapolation of genitive meaning in Man e-beriain ho [sen]? 'Which hobbit is that?' (or even Man o pheriain? I need to think over that…).

Hjalmar Holm Apr 16, 2015 (23:05)

+Александр Запрягаев As I said, there might be a possible distinction to make out of the presence or abscece of lenition. I first used Man perian but nobody understood me :-)