ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Oct 07, 2017 (15:50)

Do we have any examples of what primitive *–ab–tâ, *–ab–tê, *–ab–tô would become in Sindarin? I myself am still looking.

Or would a suffix variant with a /d/ (á la *glibdâ) typically be used after /b/ instead?

Paul Strack Oct 07, 2017 (16:20)

In Primitive Elvish, the voiced stops b, d, g were unvoiced before suffixal t (PE18/102, PE19/90). Therefore primitively abtā would become aptā. I don't know of any specific examples of this development in Sindarin or Noldorin, though.

From there, I think the voiceless stops would have become spirants, and the p eventually vocalizing to u, as in S. leutha- from PE. lepta- - Eldamo : Sindarin : leutha-

Paul Strack Oct 07, 2017 (16:23)

Another example of spirantalized p become a u is N. taus from PE. tupsē - Eldamo : Noldorin : taus

Paul Strack Oct 07, 2017 (16:39)

Wait, sorry, I found another possible development. N. aes from PE. apsā and N. lhaes from PE. lapsā. It's possible that spirantilized p become i after front vowels and only u after back vowels. The evidence is ambiguous: - Eldamo : Sindarin : [x], [ɸ] vocalized between a vowel and [s], [θ]

Based on leutha I believe that Tolkien changed his mind between Noldorin and Sindarin, so that the spirantalized p always became u, but that is extrapolated from a single example.

Paul Strack Oct 07, 2017 (16:44)

For some reason I didn't see +Ekin Gören posts as I was writing until I was done. I agree that his developments are the most likely, although aetha- is a possible result as well.

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Oct 07, 2017 (19:37)

In Proto-Celtic and Brittonic, –bt– would > –pt– > –kt– > etc. (in the grammar that Tolkien read, at least). Indeed thank you both for taking the time to help and pointing out the difference in pre-Sindarin. (Eldamo is truly an Arda-phonologist's dream come true, once you know where to look.)

Александр Запрягаев Oct 11, 2017 (21:20)

The devoicing in CE stage is actually described in TQ Mestanyatse, PE18:102, PE19:090.