Post dHdYq1JFUzB

Megan Hayward Jun 18, 2017 (02:54)

Hi! I'm very new to all of this, and I am trying to work on translating Gandalf's quote, "all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us." So far is have "Illi lwe harya na uvie na mana na car yo I lume yar na ve." Am I close? Help!

Paul Strack Jun 18, 2017 (04:12)

Don't worry about being new, we all have to start sometime. You are also picking some rather difficult phrases to start with.

You have a lot of the right bits, but they are not necessarily strung together correctly. The first thing to understand about Quenya is that pronominal subject (like "we") are attached to the verb as suffixes (such as lve). So "we have" would be haryalve not lwe harya.

Also, harya- as a verb means "have" in the sense of "to possess", so doesn't really fit what you are trying to say. You really want "have to" in the sense of "must do". I've seen the sense "must" in Quenya expressed with the verb mauya- "to impel", but in this case I think the verb pol- = "can, be able" is closer to the correct sentiment. I would also use the verb cil- "choose" instead of the noun úvie "consideration".

polelve cile = "We can (are able to) choose..."

Rather than illi "all", I would use the adverb rie "only", which is less ambiguous. The verb car- "to make, do, act" is a good fit, when combined with the conjunction manen "how":

polelve rie cile manen care = "We can only choose how to act..."

The preposition means "together with", as in "I went to the store with John". You want something more like the preposition le, I think, or perhaps the instrumental.

polelve rie cile manen care le i lúme = "We can only choose how to act with the time..."

This passive construction "is given to us" is also tricky. I think the least ambiguous way to do it is to use the passive participle antaina "given". Also, it is more natural Quenya to use an the indirect (dative) object ven instead of the prepositional na ve.


polelve rie cile manen care le i lúme ya na antaina ven = "We can only choose how to act with the time that is given to us"

I think that's reasonably close to the Gandalf's original sentiment.

Tamas Ferencz Jun 18, 2017 (09:20)

+Paul Strack one small comment : the correct conjugation would be polilve

Paul Strack Jun 18, 2017 (12:53)

+Tamas Ferencz Oh yes, duh, thank you. I am not sure what I was thinking.

Megan Hayward Jun 18, 2017 (21:28)

Instead of "how to act" manen care, what to do would be? Mana care?

Megan Hayward Jun 18, 2017 (21:44)

Also, would it not be carina instead of care?

Paul Strack Jun 18, 2017 (23:28)

You are correct, "what to do" would be mana care, which might work just as well as manen care.

As for carina, that's the passive participle of car- with a meaning like "done, made, built". It is an adjective. In this case the infinitive care "to do, to act" fits better.

Megan Hayward Jun 20, 2017 (02:36)

Gotcha! Thank you for the help! I think I'm slowly picking it up

Forthianor I Jun 20, 2017 (11:25)

there is also carna as participle of car-, right?

Tamas Ferencz Jun 20, 2017 (12:33)

+Forthianor I indeed, but as far as I can see it is only attested as part of alacarna - Eldamo : Quenya : alacarna
(and the EQ ilkarna). This does not invalidate it necessarily though.

Jan Sorondil Slaný Jun 24, 2017 (00:22)

Instead of care le i lúme ("do with the time") , how about saying care i lúmessë ("do in the time")? In my opinion, that still fits the intended meaning well.

Paul Strack Jun 24, 2017 (01:00)

+Jan Sorondil Slaný Sure that works. I'd also suggest the instrumental as a possibility: care i lúmenen "do by means of the time".

Forthianor I Jun 24, 2017 (13:58)

I'd prefer the instrumental, but just because I like the way it makes look words :)
+Tamas Ferencz Hey, I know that, but I'm kinda a vinquenya speaker, even if I gotta admit I need to updated my knowledge on the topic. Do you have any suggestions on where I can find some good and new material on Quenya grammar?

Tamas Ferencz Jun 24, 2017 (14:45)

+Forthianor I I don't know of any recent material (except for reading through the last 5 Parma Eldalamberon issues). But I am in the process of writing one - will be done in a few months I guess.