G+ LoME Archive
Aug 29, 2015 (14:46)
A preliminary draft, +
used extensively. All ecclesiastical neologisms due to Helge Fauskanger. The Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, in attempt to render the Latin wording word for word.
1. Savin erya Eru, Atar Ilmeletya, Carindo menelo cemenyë, cénima ilquo ar alcénima.
2. Ar erya Heru Yésus Hristo, yondo Eruo ernostaina. Ar Atarello nóna apa ilyë oialer. Eru Erullo, cálë cálello, Eru nanwa Eru nanwallo. Nostaina, alcarina, imëastëa
: yenen ilyë engwi carinë nar;
3. I men atanen ar rehtielman ununties menello. Ar eménies hröanna Airefëallo María wendëo: ar Atan carina;
4. Ar tarwestaina rá men: nu Pontio Piláto nwalina ar noitaina.
5. Ar encoirunies neldëa auressë, ve Aireparmasse técienwa,
6. Ar orories menelda: hamë foryassë Ataro.
7. Tanomello tuluvas alcaressë navien vëor ar firini: yev' Aranië euva mettenca.
8. Ar Airefëa, Heru ar coivie-anto: i Atarello
tultaina. Yenna ve Atarenna Yondoye airitaina ar alcartaina ná: ye quentes ter in•Erutercánor;
9. Ar erya airë Eämbarwa ar apostelwa ocombë;
10. Etequentan erya tumyalë apsenien úcarë.
11. Ar horan i•encoirulë firinion.
12. Ar coivië tulila oialëo. Násie.
Aug 30, 2015 (17:07)
I am not sure the
in later-style Quenya?
Can you explain
Perhaps you could consider using
he was crucified for our sakes
Aug 30, 2015 (17:38)
1. Well, it does not occur in vocabulary entries, but how should I render a genitive of
2. I was thinking over
for a while: I figured if even a Greek-to-Latin translation was tricky, Quenya one shouldn't be much easier! I went back to the Greek word,
which is made of the stems, 'same' and 'being', so I substituted
for 'same', as outlined in PE17, and used PE22's
to render the abstract gerund for
is really an abstract_"). Hence, 'same-being-of'.
3. Much thanks! I was looking for a proper preposition — it seems we even have an attested case (dative) for this one! I'll fix it.
Sep 04, 2015 (17:11)
: after some pondering, I believe dative case is the implied meaning here.
to imply the meaning 'to the right' instead of 'to the North'.
Sep 04, 2015 (17:59)
dative? My lambetyáve says comitative (influenced by my mother tongue no doubt)
Sep 04, 2015 (18:11)
Well, I could always do
imya érëo ve Atarya
and get out, but I wish to render as close as possible and use the apparatus of cases; I spent much time considering different cases. In Russian, this would be either dative or an analytical comitative formed by preposition 'with' followed by instrumental. Latin employs a genitive here, but that seems much a peculiarity of a specific language; I also considered *
— would that be better?
Sep 05, 2015 (13:50)
I'll have to ponder this. I have been looking at
as a possible model, but am not sure yet how it would work
Sep 06, 2015 (13:14)
Sep 06, 2015 (18:53)
was it? Can't the two coexist?
Sep 06, 2015 (23:34)
At least it's back in LVS 13:
va meninye ó le
'I won't come with you' (p.162).
Sep 07, 2015 (09:11)
A new variant: uses PE22:123 "_eastë,_ being, essence". I decided to settle on the Latin wording, for it is impossible to guess the case in Quenya, and copying grammatical constructions when translating Christian texts is not unheard of.
Sep 07, 2015 (09:27)
or another possibility is to use
"nature, tru-being, essense" from PE17:174. (
Sep 07, 2015 (12:51)
In both the Latin and the Greek wording the adjective takes the dative (consubstantialem
Sep 13, 2015 (15:23)
Good point! I got somehow distracted here. Old Church Slavonic features the same dative (единосущна
); I guess the basis was the Greek text and the expression was calqued to the rest.
is mind, but I already used
and do not wish to use the same stem NA for
Oct 13, 2018 (20:32)
Why do you translated ταφέντα as
("mourned" I guess)? Can't the word "bury" to be reconstructed? I see that Master Fauskanger avoided it.
Oct 13, 2018 (21:50)
Actually, I have answer: see
- Notes on Elvish words | Midgardsmal for the theoretical N-D-OY in it.
Oct 13, 2018 (23:40)
That clarifies me, thanks. Still I think that verbalization is kinda confusing. I just published your translation on a Spanish web about Tolkien's christianity. Of course, I credit you, but if you don't like it, I can delete it.
tolkiencristiano.wordpress.com - Credo Nicaenum Constantinopolitanum