G+ LoME Archive
Post 3kqz4zQNzTc
Matthew Callison, Jeremiah Burns, Discussion, Lőrinczi Gábor, Hjalmar Holm, Tamas Ferencz

Tamas Ferencz Jan 20, 2015 (20:56)

Hey everyone,

+Jeremiah Burns and I have been conversing in the past few days trying to find a suitable Sindarin name for his recently acquired longbow, and I thought you guys could help us to find something that
- sounds good
- has a feminine 'feel' to it
- reflects the nature of the bow somehow

My initial idea was Arpheng 'noble bow' but that was deemed too lofty, and it is. Jerry tells me that the bow is made of a laminate of three different woods, hickory, purpleheart, and lemonwood, if that is of any help.

You can see some photos of the weapon here:
Say hello to my little friend! I'd like you all to meet the newest member of…
Say hello to my little friend! I'd like you all to meet the newest member of the family.  She's graceful yet strong, rustic yet beautiful, simple yet… - Jeremiah Burns - Google+

Jeremiah Burns Jan 20, 2015 (20:59)

Thanks, +Tamas Ferencz!  Would appreciate any assistance!

Matthew Callison Jan 20, 2015 (21:10)

Penguin - "large bow"

Using peng (bow) and stealing -uin from duin (large river) and miruin (large bow).  Even if it doesn't make grammatical sense, it's still fun.

Jeremiah Burns Jan 20, 2015 (21:34)

+Matthew Callison LoL  Well I must admit, I didn't expect that!  I'll never look at penguins the same again...

Matthew Callison Jan 20, 2015 (22:04)

Maegolfil?  "Piercing branch" (I hope).  Call it "Meg" for short.

Jeremiah Burns Jan 20, 2015 (22:08)

I'm guessing that, like Maedhros, that would be pronounced my-gol-fil?

Tamas Ferencz Jan 20, 2015 (22:11)

Palangur 'remote death' (cf. palantir in Quenya).
Not very feminine, granted.

Tamas Ferencz Jan 20, 2015 (22:13)

+Matthew Callison
why the -il ending?

Matthew Callison Jan 20, 2015 (23:14)

One of the references indicated that was a way it female.  Didn't know how else to give it a "feminine feel".

Matthew Callison Jan 20, 2015 (23:15)

I am but a neophyte, and make many mistakes.  :-)

Lőrinczi Gábor Jan 21, 2015 (14:05)

Some names that crossed my mind:

Cúthannel < cû (bow) + thand (firm) + -el (as a feminine ending, cf. rodel)
Cúdarwen < cû (bow) + tar- (tough) + -wen (as a feminine ending, cf. rodwen)
Cúlegrin < cû (bow) + legrin (swift)
Cúneldo < cû (bow) + nêl (three) + taw (wood)
Neldobeng < nêl (three) + taw (wood) + peng (bow)

Jeremiah Burns Jan 21, 2015 (14:40)

+Lőrinczi Gábor Those are some outstanding options!

If the following is too difficult to answer, feel free to say so.  I'm even greener than a novice when it comes to Tolkien's languages!  But how does something like tar (tough) become dar?  How does taw (wood) become do?  (Etc.)

Lőrinczi Gábor Jan 21, 2015 (15:24)

+Jeremiah Burns Well, t becomes d when lenited, and to (do when lenited) is the monophtongized form of taw, cf. e.g., the S names of the week, Orgilion, Oranor, etc., where the first element or- comes from aur (day), or names like Thinrod or Finrod where the final element -rod comes from raud (noble) (note that aw = final au).

Jeremiah Burns Jan 21, 2015 (15:42)

Lenited?   Monophtongized?  LoL  Oh dear.  I knew I was green...but I had no idea.  I might as well ask you to speak to me in Greek.  But thank you all the same!  :-)  

Jeremiah Burns Jan 21, 2015 (15:48)

Okay...!  I've been riding in my Googlemobile...looking up what these terms mean.  I'm with you.  I see what you're driving at.  

Curious though ... are there hard-and-fast rules with Sindarin which state when a t is lenited and when it isn't...?  i.e., When it remains a er...what's the word...dental something (spoken using the teeth).

Tamas Ferencz Jan 21, 2015 (16:39)

+Jeremiah Burns
you can get an insight here: http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/sindarin.htm#mutations

Jeremiah Burns Jan 21, 2015 (16:48)

+Tamas Ferencz Thank you, bookmarked in an ever-growing folder dedicated solely to the languages... 

Tamas Ferencz Jan 21, 2015 (16:50)

+Jeremiah Burns 
Basically, initial consonants of words are mutated when
- they are the second element of a compound
- they're an adjective qualifying a noun (except when the adjective is the predicate of the sentence)
- they're an object of a verb
- after certain articles and prepositions

You could say that the last 3 cases are the same as the first one, because in those cases noun+adjective, verb+object, article+noun, preposition+noun form a loose compound so the language strives for a euphony the same way it does in real compounds.

Jeremiah Burns Jan 21, 2015 (17:22)

So much to learn... So little time!

Tamas Ferencz Jan 21, 2015 (18:03)

+Jeremiah Burns
the motto of our times

Jeremiah Burns Jan 22, 2015 (07:35)

I quite like Neldo, "three wood", but I've slept on it and think the -beng suffix is lightly jarring to my ear. If I removed it, would it change the lenitation? I'm also going through various words that may be suitable to replace bow but it may be I prefer to leave it as simple as possible.

Thank you all again for your time, attention and patience!

Hjalmar Holm Jan 22, 2015 (10:01)

Neldo in Neldobeng will not change if you remove -beng. It's -beng that was lenited from peng.

Elfdict.com translates taw to both wood and wool. Tawar is there listed as a word with only the wood meaning.
Maybe Neldawareth (nel + tawar + eth, feminine ending).

Just some thoughts. I am by no means an expert.

Jeremiah Burns Jan 22, 2015 (10:18)

+Hjalmar Holm Thanks for the reply! I thought taw was lenited to do ...?  

Neldawareth is also a lovely option!

Something else I've been considering...am I putting the right inflection on the word when I'm saying it?  For example, is it:
Néldobeng
Neldóbeng
...?

Because actually, the inflection truly changes the sound and it could be that by saying it wrong I'm getting the wrong 'feel' for the word!

Lőrinczi Gábor Jan 22, 2015 (13:19)

+Jeremiah Burns Since Neldobeng is a compound word, both the 2nd and the 3rd elements are lenited (taw > daw > do, peng > beng).

Stress falls on the 1st syllable (nel), because the vowel o (in the 2nd syllable do) is short and it is followed only by one consonant.

Jeremiah Burns Jan 22, 2015 (16:53)

+Lőrinczi Gábor As ever, I thank you.