Post LvhCsK62yd1

Tamas Ferencz Oct 10, 2016 (15:27)


`As you go down the water,' he said, `you will find that the trees will fail, and you will come to a barren country. There the River flows in stony vale amid high moors, until at last after many leagues it comes to the tall island of the Tindrock, that we call Tol Brandir. There it casts its arms about the steep shores of the isle, and falls then with a great noise and smoke over the cataracts of Rauros down into the Nindalf, the Wetwang as it is called in your tongue. That is a wide region of sluggish fen where the stream becomes tortuous and much divided. There the Entwash flows in by many mouths from the Forest of Fangorn in the west. About that stream, on this side of the Great River, lies Rohan. On the further side are the bleak hills of the Emyn Muil. The wind blows from the East there, for they look out over the Dead Marshes and the Noman-lands to Cirith Gorgor and the black gates of Mordor.

LR, Book II, Chapter 8, Farewell To Lórien

’Yasse pateal ara i neno andasse,’ eques, ‘túvualye i aldar ipíkier, ta tuluval parne nórenna. Tanome i Síre sirya sarna nande imbi *orlandali, yasse yallume tulis apa rimbe lári tenna Tol *Varandir.Tasse palyas ranquirya *pelya i tollo aiqua rávar, ta as alta ráve yo usque or Rávarosseo lantasíri ataltas Nindatalmanna. Ta lorda *hloava palla arda yasse i kelume ole urda ar íta sanka. Tanome *Onyaluime sirya mitta rimbe etsirínen Fangornello númenesse. Ara tana siril kaita Rokkonóre opo[1] Anduine. I síreo pella tárar i Ambor Muilion parni oror. Súre váva Rómello tasse, an ettirinte olla i Qualine Hloar ar i Úquen-nóre Nairea Kirissenna ar Mordóreo morne andor.

*orlanda n. ‘upland, plateau, moor’ or- ‘up’ + landa ‘plain’
*pelya adv.and prep. ‘encircling, around, about’ imperfect participle of pel-
*hloa n. ‘wetland, fen’ attested but subsequently deleted by Tolkien; LOG
*Onyaluime prop. n. ‘Entwash’

[1] I wonder if *néva could be cognate of S nef ‘on this side of’ from NEB

Rick Spell Oct 10, 2016 (16:10)

I like what you are doing. If you keep going, you will eventually get the whole story!

Tamas Ferencz Oct 10, 2016 (16:53)

+Rick Spell that is highly unlikely:)

Tamas Ferencz Oct 10, 2016 (20:05)

pata in the first sentence is probably incorrect as the text is about the Fellowship travelling by boat.

Andre Polykanine Oct 13, 2016 (23:55)

+Tamas FerenczSorry, what form is túvualye? First of all, why tuv-, not hir-? I believe, tuv- is more like find, discover in the sense of "find peace" (обретать in Russian). And second, why not tuvuvalye (tuv-uva-lye)? Is it some kind of exception? Please remember, I don't have access to Parma Eldalamberon and other scriptures, unfortunately(. Thanks!

Tamas Ferencz Oct 14, 2016 (00:06)

+Andre Polykanine​ I did not get the impression from the sources that tuv- would be much different in meaning from hir-; Tolkien seemed to be oscillating between the two forms.
In Parma Eldalamberon 22 Tolkien explains that the sequence uvu was "not favoured" in Quenya and was regularly contacted to ú so the future form of tuv- became tuvua