Robert Reynolds Feb 16, 2017 (18:35)

A relatively quick translation (since much revised) of the song "I See You" from the film Avatar
English lyrics:

Inye Cene Etye

inye cene etye
inye cene etye

pataila olorenen, inye cene etye
cálenya morniesse, súyaila estel vinya coivien
sí cuitan tyenen ar tye ninen, lelyaila
hyamin órenyasse i olor sina ​*úoio ​*lalume tele teluva

inye cenixe ​*etyenye hendunen
súyaila vinya coivie, vilila ​*tárave
melmetya calya i tie Erumanna
sie ​*yacin lavin coivienya ve ​*yanca
cuitan melmetyanen

peantatye ni manen cene quanda ya ná vanima
​*tuntamanyar appar mar i ​*úoio ​*lalume nóven nóviélanen
sí antan estelinya tyen, lavin
hyamin órenyasse i mar sina ​*úoio ​*lalume tele teluva

inye cenixe ​*etyenye hendunen
súyaila vinya coivie, vilila ​*tárave
melmetya calya i tie Erumanna
sie ​*yacin lavin coivienya, ​*yacin lavin melmenya, tyen

lan órenya náne ​*úoio ​*lalume láta
(ar súlinya ​*úoio ​*lalume lehta)
i mardan ya atánietye nin
mal hendinyu lá polde apacene
ilye i quili melmeva ar cuiviéva oiale tennoio

oiale tennoio
(inye cenixe ​*etyenye hendunen)
inye cenixe ​*etyenye hendunen
(cuitaila vinya coivie, vilila ​*tárave)
vilila ​*tárave

melmetya calya i tie Erumanna
sie ​*yacin lavin coivienya ve ​*yanca

ar cuita melmetyanen
ar cuita coivietyanen
inye cene etye
inye cene etye


*úoio adv. "never" (instead of ?aloio of possibly different meaning) (replaced with ​*lalume though original also possibly valid)
*etyenya poss. pron. "your (emphatic)" (start with independent pron. etye, inflect for dative, suffix ​-ya, inflect for number as adj.)
*tárave adv. from "high, lofty" by ​-ve
​*yac-​ v. "to offer" (trying to guess from H. Fauskanger's New Testament translation ​*yacie "offering" for which I couldn't find his inspiration) (inadequate underlying sense of "offer"; replaced with lav- "to yield, ​*surrender, ​*offer up")
*yanca n. "sacrifice"
*tuntama n. "sense, instrument/means of perception" from tanta- (the only attested word for "sense" tengwele that I found is from early Qenya and looks to conflict with a newer word meaning "language (in general)")

emphatic pronouns to translate "I see you" given the contextual meaning "the part of God in me sees the part of God in you"
"through" translated in several places using instrumental given the context of a paraplegic man walking by means of an avatar and related concepts
"-ing" constructs translated with ​-ila active participle (súyaila, et al) as best as I can follow from PE22 late notes
hendunen for dual instrumental of hend- (u dual) instead of ?hendenten
calya- for "to shine/illuminate" in general (not specifically silver or gold light)
Eruman for "paradise" seems suitable in context in literal sense "God-place"
nóve as pa.t. of nov-​ in sense "to imagine" (unsure how else to conjugate) (changed to nóviélanen "I had imagined" pluperfect (perfect active participle with weak past suffix ​-ne, inflected for 1st person sing.))
polde as pa.t. of pol-​ (trying to follow LVS5 in PE22)
lelyaila "enchanting" not "going" or similar

I encountered a few formatting difficulties in making this post; hopefully this is clear enough

Robert Reynolds Feb 16, 2017 (19:03)

+Tamas Ferencz that's possible. I would have just used "give" except that appears also, so I wanted to distinguish

Tamas Ferencz Feb 16, 2017 (19:06)

You may be able to ask Helge if you join Izhak Penzev's Quenya chat group on FB

Tamas Ferencz Feb 16, 2017 (19:07)

+Robert Reynolds I deleted my comment as I realised Helge's word was yacie not yac

Robert Reynolds Feb 16, 2017 (19:08)

+Tamas Ferencz Hantan. I'll check out the group.

Robert Reynolds Feb 17, 2017 (19:47)

Update: I got a very helpful response from Helge Fauskanger. The neologism yanca "sacrifice" is derived from the same root as the verb yac- that I used for "to offer" which means "to sacrifice"; it is based somewhat specifically on biblical animal sacrifice to a deity. I'll need to think of a good alternative/workaround for offering one's love.

Tamas Ferencz Feb 17, 2017 (20:02)

+Robert Reynolds that's not very helpful after all as he doesn't say exactly which root he based those two words on

Robert Reynolds Feb 17, 2017 (20:05)

+Tamas Ferencz hopefully he doesn't mind my reposting his actual post here, but my summary must have been misleading. He did:

Neo-Quenya yac- is a compromise of sorts. For my Bible translations I needed a word for "sacrifice" (especially in the sense of slaughtering animals in the honor of some deity). In the entire published corpus, the sole occurrence of the gloss "sacrifice" occurs with the word "jagula" in a version of Telerin; Tolkien cited an etymological stem-forrm "diag-" (we may read DYAG-, since i is indicated to be a semi-vowel here). See Parma Eldalamberon 14, page 66. This "dyag-" is explained (p. 65) to be a variant of DAK, the root generally having to do with killing or slaying. In Tolkien's later material, the "slay" root is typically given as NDAK, which could still be elaborated from DAK, but the K/G variation that would be required to get us to *DYAG seems not to occur in Tolkien's later versions of Elvish phonology. Also, Quenya derivatives of *DYAG would clash with Tolkien's later root YAG, having to do abysses or (as verb) yawning. As a sort of compromise between the various versions I decided to assume *DYAK as the root of words for "sacrifice", maintaining the DY- of DYAG while using the K of the plainly related root NDAK from later material. In this way I tried to give due consideration to both the only form Tolkien ever glossed "sacrifice" and later versions of the phonology. *DYAK- would yield Neo-Quenya yac- as a verb "to sacrifice", *dyaknâ or *dyankâ yields NQ yanca, "sacrifice" as a noun (the actual thing sacrificed), and I even threw in *dyakmâ (NQ yangwa) as the word for "altar", basically "thing for sacrifice/slaughter", very similar to the etymologies of the Hebrew and Greek "altar" words.

Tamas Ferencz Feb 17, 2017 (20:07)


Tamas Ferencz Feb 19, 2017 (10:00)

My instinct for "never" would be either *lalume or, seeing the forms quie, quiquie "whenever", *laquie.
Which does not negate the possible validity of your neologism.

Robert Reynolds Feb 20, 2017 (13:20)

Thanks! I appreciate the variety and insight.