Post S7igkFhkJWq

Josua Del Socorro May 17, 2016 (03:22)

Nen a! nen,
ne chuil i 'lanna mael,
glanno drass nín ah,
panno nin na 'lass ah estel,
na dathon tangant ne i-aur dolel.

Water oh! water,
in life that washes stain,
cleanse my doubt and,
fill me with joy and hope,
for I will be prepared in the coming day,

Josua Del Socorro May 17, 2016 (03:24)

here's another one hehehehehe

Ekin Gören May 17, 2016 (09:30)

Change Arad->Aur. And toled is a gerund, you need an active participle here, and it must come after "aur" and be lenited."i-aur dolel"

Tamas Ferencz May 18, 2016 (09:01)

*dathon: where does this come from?

Hjalmar Holm May 18, 2016 (09:28)

tangant? "prepared"?

Tamas Ferencz May 18, 2016 (10:09)

OK, I've remembered dathon: it's presumably from inn ða v'im in PE22; but in that case it should rather be *ðathon shouldn't it? Provided that we accept it's indeed the copula.

Jenna Carpenter May 18, 2016 (10:15)

Where on earth do you get the copula from existential 'there'?

Tamas Ferencz May 18, 2016 (10:29)

+Jenna Carpenter
by wishful thinking? :)

Josua Del Socorro May 18, 2016 (13:55)

dathon came from (na-) v. to be ( na + nathon = na dathon )( for I will be) heheheheheheh

Jenna Carpenter May 18, 2016 (18:39)

In that case I think you're a wee bit confused about how soft mutation works, it doesn't change an N to a D like that

Tamas Ferencz May 19, 2016 (12:13)

+Jenna Carpenter
that question is interesting one, though. Is there necessarily a difference between the existential 'to be' and the copula? There certainly isn't in my language- can we be sure that the 'there is' in the cited sentence isn't just how it is rendered in English, but Sindarin there would be no difference at all?

Jenna Carpenter May 19, 2016 (14:12)

Inn dha v'im is glossed 'there is a mind in me', i.e. that dha = existential 'there is', separating it from locative ennas = there. That we use the same word in English for both concepts is by the by (and from experience with students, oft confusing!), it's clear that Sindarin separates the two. There's no copula in use at all, the grammar simply isn't the same; it's not the same as breaking it down like English into its constituent parts and saying AdvP [Adv] [Verb], it's just [Adv]. The adage of 'is/are are usually implied in Sindarin' can be applied here.

As people seem to love quoting Welsh (do you all really speak Welsh? the mind boggles) due to the relationship between the two languages, Welsh also uses more than one word for 'there' depending on the context of the sentence.

Tamas Ferencz May 19, 2016 (14:30)

+Jenna Carpenter
I don't speak Welsh, I hope I have not given that impression anywhere:) You say that dha = there is, while ennas = there, but that was not my point at all, I say that dha could mean simply "is", as in 'a mind is in me', which is then rendered into proper English as 'there is...'

Björn Fromén May 19, 2016 (23:17)

In the earlier version inn no v'im (PE 22:165 n 108) no can hardly be anything else than the copula 'is' (= Q ). This strongly supports the interpretation 'a mind is in me'.

Jenna Carpenter May 20, 2016 (10:43)

Indeed, but that was crossed out, indicating he discounted it. He clearly hadn't forgotten about No (presumed Na-), he chose to use something else, which in my opinion is replacing the verb 'to be' with existential there. (Particularly as the note says 'There is'). That's my opinion anyway, I won't be teaching Dha- as a new verb 'to be'.
I'd better make students aware though so if they come across constructions like Dhathon they can tell what it's meant to be.

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ May 23, 2016 (03:08)

"in/on the coming day" = erin aur dolol in light of SD:129 and PE17:170 (rhu-garol).