Has anyone ever produced a satisfactory derivation for Q Vása "the Consumer"? It's been bugging me so I've looked throughout some of the older material, but am not coming up with anything. Perhaps a root √(g)wath, √(g)was (if no rhotacism), √bath ... but we already have √(g)wath linked with shadow instead.
My only other idea is if somehow √GAS "yawn, gape" from Etym. had a variant √GWAS that could be linked with "consume" in the sense of materials being sucked into the gaping hole. However, √GAS may have been obsoleted by √YAG anyway.
Does anyone have any better ideas? Naira seems to have I-infixion and is more easy to understand, but Vása is giving me a headache.
Roman Rausch Jul 07, 2014 (01:27)
I could understand how 'juice of Laurelin's fruit' could be used for the sun's rays and heat, but clui seems to derive from the concept of 'warm(th)' directly (see cluim, cluimri)...
And none of it is related to 'consume' - which I think is meant along the lines of 'singe, scorch, burn/dry up' in this context.. There are certainly plenty of roots related to warmth, hotness and burning in the Lexicons, so perhaps Tolkien decided to make one up on the fly (or reinterpret vasa) without noting it down separately?
Matt Dinse Jul 07, 2014 (02:24)
One possibility might be if √mbas "bake" had a related root √bas "burn (through), consume," but that's entirely speculation.
Tolkien did indeed like reusing old forms but reinterpreting their meaning; for example he had words related to "cold, chill, winter" from √DYEL, producing Gn. words in Gel-, Del-, etc. But later in the 20s he re-appropriated the root to make Delimorgoth > Delu-morgoth, retaining the derivation but changing the root's meaning to "terrible" (compare it in Etym.)
Like you said, perhaps Tolkien carried over that old word but changed its meaning.
Beregond, Anders Stenström Jul 07, 2014 (14:18)
Roman Rausch Jul 07, 2014 (20:52)
Regarding *√bas, in the Pater Noster Sindarin translation Tolkien actually starts with i v before changing it to i mbas. Probably just a slip, but so might be Vasa.
Matt Dinse Jul 07, 2014 (23:59)
Matt Dinse Jul 14, 2014 (01:33)
If the latter, I have no clue what the intended meaning could be. The former ?might? have some connection with √KWER "revolve" and √KYER "pray, *turn to God," but I'm not sure how such a meaning could be connected to the month of July.
Roman Rausch Jul 14, 2014 (15:28)
One may get an idea what it could mean from the sequence of month names, freely translated as:
new warmth/sun - wet - windy - sprouting - blossoming - warm/sunny - ??? - hot - harvest - fading warmth/sun - misty - cold
There is really no word between 'warm' and 'hot', so one can eliminate a reference to temperature, I think. My deep gut feeling is that it means something like 'ripening' or 'time of fruits'.
In natural languages, months are often named after a particular plant which blossoms during that time or is harvested, or an animal which comes out; but the Elvish nomenclature seems to be rather generic. I don't have the sources at hand right now, but one should also cross-check with the early names in PM.
A connection with 'revolve, turn' may be that the sun 'turns away' after the solstice; unfortunately √KWER- doesn't quite fit phonologically..
Matt Dinse Jul 15, 2014 (02:04)
Beregond, Anders Stenström Jul 15, 2014 (07:13)
Roman Rausch Aug 12, 2015 (11:30)
In any case, you can look forward to a very thorough analysis and comparison with natural languages in Arda Philology 6!
Matt Dinse Sep 02, 2015 (04:04)
Incidentally, I also discovered a few hours ago that Jim Allan came to the same conclusion about the French Republican Calendar back in his 1978 Introduction to Elvish, which I don't have a copy of. I'll have to get one - I'll enjoy reading both of their differing analyses, especially now that we know more about Tolkien's languages than was the case back then.