Post arR4gWq1vG3

Александр Запрягаев Sep 22, 2015 (19:37)

Two, possibly simple, questions to Quenya experts.

1. How do you make a genitive out of a gerund? matie-o? matio? matyo? (Same for adding -uva to perfects: mátIEUva? mátyeuva?)

2. How do you write postvocalic Y in tengwar? Is it even possible to spell yulmaya or just anda néya? Do we put the two dots under a tehta? Or maybe spell them like they were diphthongs with I instead? (like Mayar <> Maiar?)

Paul Strack Sep 23, 2015 (06:01)

In my notes I found two genitive formations for nouns ending in ie - sindieo (PE17/72) and máriéno (PE17/59). The first example implies normal rules apply. The second is a bit more interesting, indicating that a "joining consonant" might be used in some conditions.

As for the Tengwar, I'd guess you'd use yanta for post-vocalic "y", since the difference between y and diphthongal i is pretty small anyway.

Tamas Ferencz Sep 23, 2015 (08:52)

+Paul Strack
according to +Måns Björkman
When occurring solely, and not following a consonant, the palatal sound y was represented by the silent tengwa anna together with the palatalization tehta.


Александр Запрягаев Sep 23, 2015 (20:59)

+Paul Strack As I see, máriéno is rather a late stage of an experiment, 'what if laurië is an adverb, then what is márie?' So it can be excluded after RGeO. However, the second pne is disturbing. I now see that before 1936, Tolkien uses tyalio consistently and tyalyo once.

Tamas Ferencz Sep 24, 2015 (11:00)

+Александр Запрягаев
why is it disturbing? It's not awkward looking and not  difficult to pronounce.

Александр Запрягаев Sep 24, 2015 (19:50)

+Tamas Ferencz Well, it is much more awkward than the proposed tyalio, with three vowels in an epic hiatus. Especially if pronounced as written, with i stressed. Tyaliéo is altogether different thing, that I can relate to. Also, this solution does not generalize to other clusters; I cannot make a form like mátieuva with sense.

I missed anna altogether; much thanks! I've decided to study Outline of Phonology carefully now; how much it hurts that the cluster development should be considered much wrong (tengwa etc.)!

Ицхак Пензев Jan 11, 2016 (20:17)

I use máriéno, but that's rather subjective.

Александр Запрягаев Jan 14, 2016 (15:16)

+Ицхак Пензев I thought máriéno appeared in a bit which treats laurië as adverb, not adjective plural, which is superseded by RGeO printed canon. The same texts proposes a further nasty deletion blasting away the -ndon adverbials, so I tend to disregard it. I'm for PE21 here strangely enough.