Post hGG2KcG6eqH

Tamas Ferencz Apr 04, 2018 (11:19)

I watched Skyfall on Easter weekend, which has this quote from Tennyson's Ulysses, and thought I'd give it a go. I cannot do justice to the iambic pentameter of the original though.

Tho' much is taken, much abides; and though
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

Úme ráfina, mal úme termare; ar lan
Laialve i tuo ya andanéya
Ronte Ortane kén menelye; ya nalve, nalve;
Verye homion erya imya indo,
Ló lúme, umbar *pítana, nó sorna
Rike, kesta, tuve, va quie lave.


*píta-: v. transitive pair of píka- "lessen, dwindle" which can conceivably be linked to the root PEY

Björn Fromén Apr 04, 2018 (15:43)

Per PE 22:115 ronte is "rose", not "raised", so probably it's intransitive only, like the more normal oronte.

Robert Reynolds Apr 04, 2018 (15:45)


*píka- < *pei-ta could indeed work, and *nihta- < nik-ta could be an alternative of similar meaning based on the connections between PEY, PIK, and NIK. In this specific case “weakened”, NIP could be applicable for its attested “weakness” connotation; *nipta- ”to cause to lessen/weaken” could be a transitive verb.

I’m unclear on quie here; I understand “steadfast/resolved to strive, seek, find, and refuse to yield” without it. Is va quie analogous to laqui “unless; (lit.) if not”? KWI involves uncertainty, which seems to contradict sorna; is this quie something else?

Tamas Ferencz Apr 04, 2018 (15:57)

+Björn Fromén yes, I know it's shaky, hence my quest for a transitive 'move'; I considered wiltane but found it too long

Tamas Ferencz Apr 04, 2018 (15:58)

+Robert Reynolds quie here is meant to stand for 'ever, at any time'; I felt va lave was too short on its own, but úlume too unwieldy

Tamas Ferencz Apr 04, 2018 (16:24)

+Robert Reynolds indeed *nipta- could be 'weaken' and *píta- more generic 'reduce, decrease'.

Björn Fromén Apr 04, 2018 (23:17)

Translating 'ever' is often tricky as we have no clear model how to use úlume. I think vá (qui)quie for 'refusing ever (= whenever [asked])' is a very good solution.

Robert Reynolds Apr 04, 2018 (23:43)

I agree: it's a fitting phrasing and useful to remember.