Post 6BH2zCD3ooC

James Coish Sep 30, 2017 (04:04)

"Ilya mára nauva, ar ilya mára nauva, ar ilquaima engwi mára nauvar."

"All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well." Julian of Norwich

Paul Strack Sep 30, 2017 (05:58)

Nice, but I have a few suggestions.

The word ilya is usually an adjective while ilqua is a noun, so I'd switch your use of those.

Also if you want to express "things", you might to include nati or engwi. Thus:

ilqua mára nauva, ar ilqua mára nauva, ar ilye engwi mára nauvar

[Edit: added last mára]

For the last bit, adjective and verb must be plural to match the noun.

As for lé, that means "manner, way" as in "way of doing things". What you mean here is "all kinds of things". I actually have no idea how to express "sort, kind, type" in Quenya.

Finally, you might want to use mána "blessed" inside of mára "(physically) good", if the original quote is implying divine providence. I am not familiar with the source material, so I am not sure of the intent.

James Coish Sep 30, 2017 (06:01)

the "well" means "ok". Thank you for your expertise. :-)

Paul Strack Sep 30, 2017 (06:57)

In that case mára is likely the best translation.

Tamas Ferencz Sep 30, 2017 (10:06)

There is manima "of what type, of what sort?" Which could imply words like *tanima "of that sort", *íquanima "any kind", so perhaps also *ilquanima "all sort of"

Александр Запрягаев Sep 30, 2017 (19:33)

+Paul Strack
> For the last bit, adjective and verb must be plural to match the noun.

Not necessarily: - Agreement of adjectives in Quenya 8.2

Paul Strack Sep 30, 2017 (20:20)

+Александр Запрягаев Excellent point. I spend to much time looking at primary material and not enough time reading other analysis of the languages. Going through Roman's writing has been on my todo-list for years now.

Also, in my first post, I neglected to include mára in the Thor predicate. I've fixed that.

ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ Oct 01, 2017 (14:34)

The /n/ in manima might also be from an interrogative stem man(a), and not a "connecting consonant" or part of the suffix. ... Btw it's also somewhat of a pity that Tolkien didn't keep the consistency (with [?]earlier taitë, sítë) when he introduced manima.

Paul Strack Oct 01, 2017 (16:59)

As verbal suffixes, it seems -ima means "able to be done" and -ite means "capable of doing, generally doing", a somewhat passive/active variation. As suffixes for other parts of speech, their meaning is highly variable though. I've yet to figure out a pattern +ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ

Tamas Ferencz Oct 02, 2017 (09:17)

+ܤܡܝ ܦܠܕܢܝܘܤ he seems to have reappropriated the -íte suffix, too, for verbal adjectives at that point

James Coish Oct 03, 2017 (22:01)

+Tamas Ferencz manima, tanima come from ma(na), ta(na); I would think íquanima, ilquanima would be íquaima and ilquaima since they come from íqua and ilqua. Would I be correct? (-ima from pronouns/adverbs vs. verbs confuse me).

Tamas Ferencz Oct 04, 2017 (12:03)

+James Coish the question is whether there is any difference (or, rather, whether there was any difference in Tolkien's mind) between -ima as a verbal adjectival suffix ('able/apt to do sg') and the generic adjectival suffix -ima (as in vanima, winima, ainima), or are they the same suffix, only when it is attached to a verb it gains an 'added' meaning of 'be able to'? If they are one and the same, then in PE22 Tolkien tells us that for verbs ending in -a the suffix is connected to the stem with an 'l': istalima, ortalima etc. Although of course there are contradictory examples even to this. So perhaps the correct forms would be *íqualima, *ilqualima.
Interestingly, the form íqallume may suggest that it is íqan + lume?