What vowel do you people put before the locatives in a word possessing no final vowel? aran, aranVllo, kas, karVsse — what do you put? Ómataima of the stem, ómataima of the suffix, generalized 'E'? I'm doing a research on that — please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems Tolkien never applied or described such a form after the DN 4 of 1930! (In QE etc. he repeats a totally ambiguous statement about 'monosyllabic consonantal through ómataima' giving a single example, nenesse, which allows any of these possibilities. (Actually, I'd rather have an assimilation kallo, kasse, kanna for kas, but what for aran?).
On an unrelated note, I'm presenting my studies on imperfect on a conference tomorrow. There will be a fellow contributor, who give a talk about the pros and cons of existing Quenya courses — must be fun!
Tamas Ferencz Apr 13, 2016 (21:44)
Tamas Ferencz Apr 13, 2016 (22:00)
Beregond, Anders Stenström Apr 13, 2016 (22:16)
Matt Dinse Apr 13, 2016 (22:18)
There are also the forms Amanna, formenna and Rómesse, Rómello.
That conference sounds interesting!
Andre Polykanine Apr 14, 2016 (00:22)
Paul Strack Apr 14, 2016 (01:12)
http://eldamo.org/content/words/word-2610491611.html
For example:
http://eldamo.org/content/words/word-988788179.html
The only major item I have to add to Matt's list is Lóriendesse assuming a stem form of Lóriend-, which also points to E. The rule I use is E, with an exception where assimilation is possible and with -inya for 1st sg possessive.
Matt Dinse Apr 14, 2016 (05:30)
Ambartanen could be mentioned as well, though that's not locative. Do we have any reason to believe in 50s+ Quenya that the filler vowel changes for different cases, and its locative would be ambartesse? I didn't think so, but figured this was a good time to bring it up. ómataima, restoration of a lost vowel, generalized E, different vowels for the different cases ... Q(u)enya has shown a variety of different ways to select the vowel for consonantal declensions.
For possessives, VT49:17 is another data point to ponder. I am perhaps too quick to think "ah, that must be a different chronological snapshot and the paradigms aren't meant to coexist", but talasse makes me wonder. Perhaps a separate consonantal declension survived for stressed monosyllables, even in the late 60s (or was reintroduced)?
Mélamarimma vs. Ataremma fits with VT49:17.
Paul Strack Apr 14, 2016 (07:02)
tarassi is a good example. I hadn't considered the possibility that it could be the plural of taras. I still think a locative is more likely given the gloss, but I am not 100% sure.
Александр Запрягаев Apr 14, 2016 (08:18)
Now, all of you persuade me to use assimilation or stem ómataima in basic monosyllables and E elsewhere. Usage in the plural us another problem: putting over I with N/R at the end is a double number marking…
Tamas Ferencz Apr 14, 2016 (12:02)
can you clarify that last sentence of yours please?
Matt Dinse Apr 14, 2016 (18:06)
The reason I didn't think tarassi has a locative ending is because I assumed "in" is covered by to, a preposition which resembles to "above, on" in LVS14 (168). I think "as a rule" in that sentence could just be illustrating the habitual nuance of the aorist nihare as opposed to imperfect hára in the previous one.
The relevant paragraph says "Note the use of the imperfect: hára is used always when the 'dwelling' of any particular person or thing is still going on. The aorist would be used in such a sentence as this: 'In the summer I live in the hills as a rule, and come down to the plains in the winter.' lairesse nihare to tarassi, yu unta hrívesse landannar."
Similarly, to appears in the unglossed sentence vári to vanimar (VT27:35), though that may not be the same word.
Paul Strack Apr 15, 2016 (03:52)
Tamas Ferencz Apr 15, 2016 (11:15)
Александр Запрягаев Apr 17, 2016 (15:22)
I also noticed you mark intin as dative of *inti at http://eldamo.org/content/words/word-2139547975.html . They seem rather nominative to me, I'd rather interpret those as somehow connected to "the final -m/n that sometimes appears at the end of object pronouns in pl. and belongs to them, not to the subject" at 94. As the separate (emphatic?) pronouns are basically objectives added to some stem-vowels, this n could be an additional plurality marker like that.
Paul Strack Apr 17, 2016 (17:04)
Александр Запрягаев Apr 17, 2016 (17:43)
Paul Strack Apr 17, 2016 (17:56)
Александр Запрягаев Apr 21, 2016 (21:32)